WI: Stresemann executes those beer hall thugs

[MRig]

I was reading a bit on Gustav Stresemann and how he dealt rather lightly with the conspirators of the Beer Hall Putsch. And then I thought to myself, "wouldn't it have been nice if he'd lined the bastards up against a wall and shot the lot of them?"

I'm assuming the charge would be treason, but these are details.

Can he, or someone else, do it? What effects does it have?

 

[Snowman23]

Nazis get a cause célèbre to rally around, maybe get rowdier quicker, but then just get stomped out faster. Maybe another radical group takes hold of the Wiemar Republic, such as communists?

 

[Eurofed]

I was reading a bit on Gustav Stresemann and how he dealt rather lightly with the conspirators of the Beer Hall Putsch. And then I thought to myself, "wouldn't it have been nice if he'd lined the bastards up against a wall and shot the lot of them?"

I'm assuming the charge would be treason, but these are details.

Can he, or someone else, do it? What effects does it have?

The Nazis die out, some other non-racist far right movement takes their place, Germany becomes a conservative-nationalist dictatorship in the 1930s, does its Rhineland-Austria-Sudetenland number on schedule, doesn't invade rump Czechia, bargains a Munich II or fights a limited German-Polish war to recover the 1914 territories, WWII as we know it doesn't happen and millions of surviving Jews, Roma, Slavs, and homosexuals feel an inexplicable shiver when they look at a venerable solar symbol.

Edit: Stalin may or may not unleash *a* WWII in the mid-1940s when he mistakenly feels strong enough to pick a fight with capitalist Europe or his paranoid self thinks a pre-emptive attack is a good idea, Japan eventually oversteps itself, picks a fight with USA/UK/USSR and gets curbstomped, HUGE cultural butterflies from lack of Holocaust, such as racism, colonialism, and militarism (but likely not sexism nor Victorian sexual mores) remaining respectable ideas longer, fascism gradually dies a quiet death as the old guard leaders die out and reformist successors take over, Communism may become the pariah ideology IF anti-Soviet WWII occurs and Stalinist atrocities are discovered, desgregation may or may not be slightly delayed, decolonization almost surely is delayed substantially, eugenics remain a respectable idea so we might have working genetic engineering treatments as of now. However, if anti-Soviet WWII is butterflied away as well, we might face a technological delay of up to a decade in many fields. Possibly the GMD gets more support against the Chinese Communists and south China or even all China remains capitalist develops decades earlier. Europe remains all capitalist, and southern and eastern Europe industrialize faster, so is more affluent, the EU may or may not happen (it does if Soviet Russia is felt as a menace, with or without a WWII against it). If WWII does not take place, the development of American hegemony is limited to Asia and globally the European powers share the leadership (UK, France, Germany, Italy), possibly soon joined by a fast-growing China. More prosperous Europe and China, and possibly technological delay, means more global warming.

 

[Kome]

Im thinking the military is going to revolt, lining up a famous war hero like a thug and shooting him is going to far, although the commander that fought the conspirators did hate the nazis, so he might have had them all shot just for the heck of it against orders.

 

[Sigma7]

I think the best POD to produce such an outcome would be if Hitler actually makes good on his threat and shoots von Kahr when von Kahr refuses to support him, before Ludendorf arrives. In OTL, Ludendorf was able to get the triumvirate to (momentarily) comply with Hitler's demands, mainly through trading on von Lossow and von Seisser's sense of duty.

How Ludendorf would react to a dead von Kahr, I can't say, but now, Hitler and the others in the ante-room are on the hook for premeditated murder. Doubtful Ludendorf is going to stick around for long after he finds out that psychotic Hilter has committed murder so the putsch loses Ludendorf's support and leadership.

Without Ludendorf in the mix, and a murder on their hands, perhaps Ritter von Danner moves more agressively (and brutally) to crush the putsch and the Nazis and SA are cut to pieces by the army during the counter attack.

Even if he doesn't and still rounds up the Nazis and SA, Stresemann's hand really has to be forced here. There's a murder of a public official on top of kidnappings, hostages and a declared revolt.

If Stresemann can't send them to the gallows for that, Weimar Germany never really stood a chance of survival. I'd contend his weak actions following what actually DID happen is proof enough of that, but some may disagree.

 

[Markus]

Some users obviously do not understand that Germany in the 1920 was a democracy! With checks and balances including an independent judiciary! And the charge was treason!

 

[Lord Insane]

Some users obviously do not understand that Germany in the 1920 was a democracy! With checks and balances including an independent judiciary! And the charge was treason!

Which I guess makes Sigma7's proposal slightly more reasonable- it, at least, adds a reason why the judiciary, even with the same judge, advocate, etc, would be harsher on Hitler and his compatriots.

 

[antisocrates]

Some users obviously do not understand that Germany in the 1920 was a democracy! With checks and balances including an independent judiciary! And the charge was treason!

The brevity of your post confuses me as to what you're trying to say. I'll note that the trial was a travesty of justice and a sad commentary on just how low has the German judiciary fallen from its lofty ideals. I mean, no judiciary-- not German or American-- has been free from its class prejudices but what happened at the trial was above and beyond normal practices where they at least try to appear fair, e.g., US Supreme Court Justice Scalia is a well-known reactionary but at least he tries to appear impartial. These bums, though, were just shameless.

 

[Markus]

The well known problem was the independant but not impartial judiciary. They let Hitler off the hook as they agreed fighting Versailles and the Left was ok even if laws were broken in the process.

The only ways to get tough are somehow getting only pro-Weimar judges into the court or have more popular right wingers turn the court against Hitler.

And just by the way, in 1924 Stresemann was not even Chancellor any more, just Sec. of State.

 

[MRig]

So it looks like this one isn't up to Stresemann.

The question becomes: can Weimar survive if the judiciary had come to its defense and made example of the Nazis? I am inclined to think so. The chance of a Communist Germany rises to fill the vacuum, but so does the chance of republican survival. When communism becomes the boogeyman, the right sides with SPD, as they had before. WWII (if it is even given that name) will likely cast Stalin in the role of history's Big Bad. Or will the world move straight to containment?