WI: Standard German dialect replaced with PA Dutch after WWII?

PA Dutch is, in essence, an Americanized/Anglicized 18th century Southwest German dialect.

What if the occupying Americans decided that it would be good to impose this Americanized language upon the defeated Germany in 1945?
 
Forcing everyone in a country to speak a different language is hard enough; doing that when you don't even speak it yourself is just nonsensical. I guess they could promote the use of English loanwords in German (not even sure why they would do that), but that wouldn't be Pennsylvania Dutch, it would be German with a few English loanwords thrown in.
 
PA Dutch is, in essence, an Americanized/Anglicized 18th century Southwest German dialect.

What if the occupying Americans decided that it would be good to impose this Americanized language upon the defeated Germany in 1945?

The other occupying powers (not to mention the German people) would think they are nuts. The Soviets in particular would have a wonderful propaganda theme: "in our zone, the real German language--the language of Lessing and Goethe and Schiller and Heine and Marx--is respected, while the Americans are trying to replace it with some weird Americanized dialect."
 
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Even the Americans didn't like Pennsylvania Dutch, that's why basically no one except insular groups like the Amish and Mennonites grew up speaking it after 1945.

Oh wait, that's an idea. The postwar occupation is led by the Mennonites who attempt to convert the entire country to their religion. Since Mennonites don't believe in warfare, this would obviously be a desirable result in Germany.
 
Even the Americans didn't like Pennsylvania Dutch, that's why basically no one except insular groups like the Amish and Mennonites grew up speaking it after 1945.

Oh wait, that's an idea. The postwar occupation is led by the Mennonites who attempt to convert the entire country to their religion. Since Mennonites don't believe in warfare, this would obviously be a desirable result in Germany.

Most Pennsylvania Dutch people have been english language dominant since the early 1800s.

And most Mennonites speak English. Only some fringe groups still don’t.
 
Same reason the English forced their language on the Irish. To demonstrate dominance over a defeated rival.

That's really not why the Irish language almost died out. The English didn't view the Irish as a 'defeated rival,' for a start. The various attempts at stamping out the Irish language- never as dangerous as the broader economic dominance of English by the nineteenth century- were aimed at cementing the Irish within the British state.

The same for the attempted destruction of Te Reo Maori, and the hideous machinery that was English-language 'native schooling' in Australia, Canada (and I believe the USA.)

In none of those cases was English cemented as a... as a piece of dick-waving. It was part and parcel of the colonial project.


The Americans aren't trying to do that in Germany! They don't want to be in Germany in a decade, let alone a century! Why would they embark on a hugely expensive and unpopular project with no chance of success, no support from their allies, the active opposition of the Soviets (who as has been noted will be astonished at the easy propaganda victory they've been handling) all to let the Germans know they've been beaten?

Why?

Do you really think there was anyone in US command saying 'Well, Ivan got to the Reichstag- and we've put their old government on trial- and we've got troops patrolling their streets- and those streets are full of rubble after the bombing campaign they were helpless to stop- and there's no German government in existence right now- and we control all the press. I dunno if they've got the message, what can we do to 'demonstrate dominance?'
 
That's really not why the Irish language almost died out. The English didn't view the Irish as a 'defeated rival,' for a start. The various attempts at stamping out the Irish language- never as dangerous as the broader economic dominance of English by the nineteenth century- were aimed at cementing the Irish within the British state.

The same for the attempted destruction of Te Reo Maori, and the hideous machinery that was English-language 'native schooling' in Australia, Canada (and I believe the USA.)

In none of those cases was English cemented as a... as a piece of dick-waving. It was part and parcel of the colonial project.


The Americans aren't trying to do that in Germany! They don't want to be in Germany in a decade, let alone a century! Why would they embark on a hugely expensive and unpopular project with no chance of success, no support from their allies, the active opposition of the Soviets (who as has been noted will be astonished at the easy propaganda victory they've been handling) all to let the Germans know they've been beaten?

Why?

Do you really think there was anyone in US command saying 'Well, Ivan got to the Reichstag- and we've put their old government on trial- and we've got troops patrolling their streets- and those streets are full of rubble after the bombing campaign they were helpless to stop- and there's no German government in existence right now- and we control all the press. I dunno if they've got the message, what can we do to 'demonstrate dominance?'

I was under the impression that it was normal to linguistically convert conquered nations. Look at Norman French in England, Arabic in the Levant, English in Malta, etc...
 
I was under the impression that it was normal to linguistically convert conquered nations. Look at Norman French in England, Arabic in the Levant, English in Malta, etc...
All of which take centuries, at least. England doesn't speak French, Arabic took nearly 500 years to get most people to speak it in the Fertile Crescent (and have still failed in many cases), and English doesn't count at this point with Malta, because Maltese is still the first language of Malta-- people learn English because most people in the Western World do.
 
All of which take centuries, at least. England doesn't speak French, Arabic took nearly 500 years to get most people to speak it in the Fertile Crescent (and have still failed in many cases), and English doesn't count at this point with Malta, because Maltese is still the first language of Malta-- people learn English because most people in the Western World do.
England spoke French for centuries, though.
 
Despite the best efforts of conquerors, mother tongue dominates after a generation or two.

Take for example Vikings in Normandy, France. They spoke Scandinavian (North German) languages when they raided and traded along the French coast, but took French women as wives. Rollo the Viking was the first Viking “tamed” by the King of France. Less than a century later, his grandson - William the Conqueror - imposed the French language on the British nobility. French remained the language of diplomacy for almost a thousand years.

In another example, Mongolians arrived in Northern Persia and took Persian wives. When they (Moguls) moved on the conquer India, they imported a Persian language.
 
If American occupiers imposed a new dialect on West Germany, they could render obsolete Nazi propaganda obsolete in a generation or two. Eventually older politically-incorrect books would disappear into dusty back shelves of obscure libraries.
 
Despite the best efforts of conquerors, mother tongue dominates after a generation or two.

Take for example Vikings in Normandy, France. They spoke Scandinavian (North German) languages when they raided and traded along the French coast, but took French women as wives. Rollo the Viking was the first Viking “tamed” by the King of France. Less than a century later, his grandson - William the Conqueror - imposed the French language on the British nobility. French remained the language of diplomacy for almost a thousand years.

In another example, Mongolians arrived in Northern Persia and took Persian wives. When they (Moguls) moved on the conquer India, they imported a Persian language.

Spanish men conquered Mexico and took native wives. Today Mexicans speak Spanish.
 
If American occupiers imposed a new dialect on West Germany, they could render obsolete Nazi propaganda obsolete in a generation or two. Eventually older politically-incorrect books would disappear into dusty back shelves of obscure libraries.

Yes just like death of Hebrew and Koine Greek rendered the Bible obsolete.
 
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