WI Stalin prioritize soviet navy

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What if Stalin prioritize the building of a large soviet navy and funded the necessary money to build a navy that rival the imperial Japanese navy by 1930s?
 
Germans crashing them in 1941?

Not necessarily. Soviet pre-war army was pretty much crushed in the opening stage of Barbarossa and they still won. Less resources for the Red Army might (or it might not) result in smaller army but one with better quality. Or, in case of Stalin's Soviet Union, probably not.

On the other hand, better and larger Soviet Navy would mean actions of both German Northern AG and Southern AG would be quite different from OTL. And, of course, if priority of resources go to Pacific, then...
 
Not necessarily. Soviet pre-war army was pretty much crushed in the opening stage of Barbarossa and they still won. Less resources for the Red Army might (or it might not) result in smaller army but one with better quality. Or, in case of Stalin's Soviet Union, probably not.

On the other hand, better and larger Soviet Navy would mean actions of both German Northern AG and Southern AG would be quite different from OTL. And, of course, if priority of resources go to Pacific, then...
The Soviets can't prioritize a war with the Japanese before the threat of Germany is dealt with.
 
Why would he do this? Russia is a land power, and it's main threats are land-based (namely Germany). Building a massive navy doesn't help Russia accomplish its major geopolitical goals or defend against its main threats (those two goals are related, because Russia's main goal throughout the 1930s was to defend itself against the Western and Fascist powers). Furthermore, Stalin was highly suspicious of the Navy. Naval officers often came into contact with foreigners, which caused Stalin to believe that they had become foreign agents (the end result was that all but one admiral was killed during the Great Purge).
 
Less forces to stand against the German invasion in '41 which just might be enough to finish them off.
 
The Soviets can't prioritize a war with the Japanese before the threat of Germany is dealt with.
And they really don't need a good navy to fight the IJA in Manchuria and Korea, why do they need the fleet?
 
And they really don't need a good navy to fight the IJA in Manchuria and Korea, why do they need the fleet?
In theory, any successful war against Japan is going to need to invade the home islands. Furthermore, having a fleet would prevent the Japanese from launching amphibious assaults.

That said, what we have here is a variation of the Sealion problem. The USSR can't build an army strong enough to withstand Germany (or the capitalist powers, which was another fear of the Soviets) and a navy strong enough to defeat the IJN. The only way to do that is to have a POD well before the Russian Revolution, which would radically change the circumstances of the 1930s. The army is far more important, for the reasons outlined in other posts, so having the navy be the center of focus is implausible. The only difference between this and Sealion is that the Soviets don't need to defeat other powers in order to take on Japan (like Germany does with Britain), so it wouldn't be impossible for them to neglect the army and build a massive navy. It would just be really stupid.
 
In theory, any successful war against Japan is going to need to invade the home islands. Furthermore, having a fleet would prevent the Japanese from launching amphibious assaults.

That said, what we have here is a variation of the Sealion problem. The USSR can't build an army strong enough to withstand Germany (or the capitalist powers, which was another fear of the Soviets) and a navy strong enough to defeat the IJN. The only way to do that is to have a POD well before the Russian Revolution, which would radically change the circumstances of the 1930s. The army is far more important, for the reasons outlined in other posts, so having the navy be the center of focus is implausible. The only difference between this and Sealion is that the Soviets don't need to defeat other powers in order to take on Japan (like Germany does with Britain), so it wouldn't be impossible for them to neglect the army and build a massive navy. It would just be really stupid.
The Japanese would just bomb and or blockade Vladivostok. I just don't see the Soviets even being capable of equaling the Japanese navy even if they tried it would fail. Then once the fleet is destroyed the Japanese would be free to project power further than before, and Soviets would be less able to prevent it with a weaker army and a second lost war to Japan.
 
my scenario is always that Germany (and Italy if they could be convinced to join in) encourages, builds, and in any other way possible facilitates a Soviet naval expansion ... the bigger the ships the better https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovetsky_Soyuz-class_battleship ... it is absolutely the biggest waste and mistaken strategy possible for USSR.

Axis could have stockpiled oil and grain far beyond historical, likely none of Soviet ships are completed by time of Barbarossa (if it happens), and it MAY entangle Soviets in war against Japan and/or Allied side.
 
my scenario is always that Germany (and Italy if they could be convinced to join in) encourages, builds, and in any other way possible facilitates a Soviet naval expansion ... the bigger the ships the better https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovetsky_Soyuz-class_battleship ... it is absolutely the biggest waste and mistaken strategy possible for USSR.

Axis could have stockpiled oil and grain far beyond historical, likely none of Soviet ships are completed by time of Barbarossa (if it happens), and it MAY entangle Soviets in war against Japan and/or Allied side.
That is an interesting plan, but I don't think something Hitler would approve. Maybe some other leader takes control would do that though.
 
my scenario is always that Germany (and Italy if they could be convinced to join in) encourages, builds, and in any other way possible facilitates a Soviet naval expansion ... the bigger the ships the better https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovetsky_Soyuz-class_battleship ... it is absolutely the biggest waste and mistaken strategy possible for USSR.

Axis could have stockpiled oil and grain far beyond historical, likely none of Soviet ships are completed by time of Barbarossa (if it happens), and it MAY entangle Soviets in war against Japan and/or Allied side.

That is an interesting plan, but I don't think something Hitler would approve. Maybe some other leader takes control would do that though.

they sold detailed plans to Bismarck-class battleships under logic that (any) Soviet version would only be ready several years into the future so my scenario is only a grandiose version of that?
 
they sold detailed plans to Bismarck-class battleships under logic that (any) Soviet version would only be ready several years into the future so my scenario is only a grandiose version of that?
Does Germany have the industrial capabilities to build Soviet ships and do their own re-armament? I honestly don't know.
 
The Soviets can't prioritize a war with the Japanese before the threat of Germany is dealt with.

Sure they can! That's just a recipe for German victory, but yes, Soviets can prioritize Japanese threat if they just want to.
 
Its not too far fetched to say Stalin did prioritize the navy post-1939. Perhaps Germany could have dedicated even more of their naval capacity to support this in return for more of what they got IOTL.
 
One of the reasons why the soviet navy received little funding was that during the revolution there was a large number of loyalists in the navy.
 
Beyond ships, does the Soviet Far East have the capacity to support a major fleet in the 1930s? Your first POD would need to be decades earlier that sees a much higher level of development in the Soviet Far East.
 
Stalin wanted a real navy. IMVHO, it would be possible for him to push for a pair of new battleships in the 1930's and actually get them completed before the war. It would even make a warped sort of sense, as, in this time, battleships were a big symbol of national prestige. If he'd used guns for the Izmail class http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_14-52_mk6.php they could have built a decent mid-range battleship. (All new hull design, for a battleship rather than a battlecruiser, and the modern look, would have been useful for prestige.) Alternatively, import guns; there were sources that might sell to the USSR.
A pair of powerful Baltic battleships could change the naval equation at first; the Baltic wouldn't be a German lake until the Luftwaffe dealt with these two ships.

A Soviet carrier would be a waste of funds in confined waters, with land based air close at hand--time enough to build them after Germany is defeated, the way to the Atlantic from the Baltic is open, and it's time to project power.

Any rational program pre World War II would be restrained, not too dissimilar to what was actually under construction. Pacific fleet--not worth building. It would be meat on the table for a real naval power. At the time, only the USA could afford both a first rate fleet and a big army; on the continent, big armies are necessary.
 
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