WI Stalin killed in early 1941?

what if Axis succeed in killing Stalin in early 1941? after the German-Soviet Border and Commercial Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_Border_and_Commercial_Agreement which settled (most) trade questions but did not deal with Soviet entry into Axis.

(for argument's sake let's say German ambassador and other Germans die too, and the case is unclear)

does it stall or end German invasion plans? or just reinforce the idea to invade, with thought leaderless country even more vulnerable?

or does the USSR, likely headed by committee at least initially, offer ever more generous concessions on raw materials?
 

Deleted member 1487

what if Axis succeed in killing Stalin in early 1941? after the German-Soviet Border and Commercial Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_Border_and_Commercial_Agreement which settled (most) trade questions but did not deal with Soviet entry into Axis.

(for argument's sake let's say German ambassador and other Germans die too, and the case is unclear)

does it stall or end German invasion plans? or just reinforce the idea to invade, with thought leaderless country even more vulnerable?

or does the USSR, likely headed by committee at least initially, offer ever more generous concessions on raw materials?
Depends on how the Soviets react to the death of Stalin and potential involvement of the Germans. German reaction matters too. It might cause civil war, might not, but the USSR will probably be distracted by working out things internally and react similar to Stalin as far as ignoring warning signs, or might be better prepared if there is enough fear of the Germans. It is really tough to say one way or the other on all issues.
 
Depends on how the Soviets react to the death of Stalin and potential involvement of the Germans. German reaction matters too. It might cause civil war, might not, but the USSR will probably be distracted by working out things internally and react similar to Stalin as far as ignoring warning signs, or might be better prepared if there is enough fear of the Germans. It is really tough to say one way or the other on all issues.

my scenario may be incorrect but seems rule by committee their relations may go sideways for some period of time? they might as you suggest prepare a better defense (while continuing to seek entry into Axis?)

who would likely rule in 1941? an earlier version of troika that succeeded Stalin, Molotov-Beria-Malenkov or add a military figure (Timoshenko since Zhukov is not as prominent)
 

Deleted member 1487

my scenario may be incorrect but seems rule by committee their relations may go sideways for some period of time? they might as you suggest prepare a better defense (while continuing to seek entry into Axis?)

who would likely rule in 1941? an earlier version of troika that succeeded Stalin, Molotov-Beria-Malenkov or add a military figure (Timoshenko since Zhukov is not as prominent)
Depends who is on that council, how long before Beria is purged (was after Stalin's death IOTL), and what the army does. Not sure what their position on the Axis is or what preparations for defense they may make. Zhukov was probably too junior at that point, but whomever was on his political team (Beria temporarily, Molotov and several others).
 
Depends who is on that council, how long before Beria is purged (was after Stalin's death IOTL), and what the army does. Not sure what their position on the Axis is or what preparations for defense they may make. Zhukov was probably too junior at that point, but whomever was on his political team (Beria temporarily, Molotov and several others).

yeah, Beria is like the man on the Orient Express, everyone would be out for him!

you could certainly see one or more of the military people wanting a border conflict somewhere? which in convoluted way ties them in with Axis, if they step away from Germany or look to be negotiating with Allies they are in major war while in or siding with Axis they could (probably) invade Iran or eastern Turkey? (or maybe Zhukov wants another beating to Japanese?) in the name of being seen as strongman.
 
what if Axis succeed in killing Stalin in early 1941? after the German-Soviet Border and Commercial Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_Border_and_Commercial_Agreement which settled (most) trade questions but did not deal with Soviet entry into Axis.
Are you suggesting Stalin is assassinated by German agents? How would that be possible, given Stalin's extreme paranoia and iron control of Soviet territory? And could the Germans do it without being caught?
(for argument's sake let's say German ambassador and other Germans die too, and the case is unclear)
This implies some kind of suicidish or Trojan Horse bombing attack, and that the Germans get away with it.

does it stall or end German invasion plans? or just reinforce the idea to invade, with thought leaderless country even more vulnerable?

Hitler still wants to crush the USSR, kill Bolshevism, and take lebensraum.

However, a possible knock-on is that the post-Stalin leadership sees the invasion coming. Stalin became convinced that Germany would not attack in 1941, and that Britain was desperately trying to provoke war between Germany and the USSR. In his eyes, "perfidious Albion" was playing its usual game of finding a Continental ally to do the heavy lifting.

So when the British presented the Soviets with a complete and detailed picture of German preparations for BARBAROSSA (largely from ULTRA decrypts), Stalin decreed that it was all a sneaky British trick. And no one dared to disagree with Stalin. He took a similar line toward reports from Soviet intelligence and reconnaissance.

Stalin was so determined to avoid falling into the British trap that he ordered all troops in the frontier districts to stay out of combat readiness, lest some commander by mistake order his men into battle.

The result was that BARBAROSSA began with a colossal sucker-punch, from which the Soviet army never completely recovered.

ATL, the post-Stalin Soviet leaders will not be so foolish.
 
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Are you suggesting Stalin is assassinated by German agents? How would that be possible, given Stalin's extreme paranoia and iron control of Soviet territory? And could the Germans do it without being caught?
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This implies some kind of suicidish or Trojan Horse bombing attack, and that the Germans get away with it.

there are some references to the Japanese thinking they were close? how true ... but yes, was speculating the only way would be some type of Trojan Horse attack in which German(s) die as well.

probably should have just posted if he DIED in the weird period between discussions about Soviets joining Axis and Operation Barbarossa.
 
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