Well, that was already the case. The SR-71 was flown in international airspace near borders (generally the Soviet border) to use side-looking sensors to obtain data, specifically to avoid the risk of an interception and shootdown. The A-12 was operated over hostile territory, but only North Vietnam and North Korea, not the Soviet Union. They might have risked it if they hadn't had satellites by then, but they did and so the risk of a shootdown was deemed more pressing.
WI :- SR-71 shot down
marathag
Banned
SR-71 were just gap fillers for KeyHole spysats not being in the right place at the right time by the late 1960s, and more for ELINT, than camera work at the end of their time in service
Riain
Banned
In wartime the value of the SR71 goes up because of it's responsiveness and flexibility; satellite tracks are known and can be countered whereas the SR71 can turn up unannounced. If the war is important enough then the risks of shootdowns will be more readily accepted, in WW3 I'd guess the SR71 fleet would be flying into SA5 and Mig25 engagement envelopes and losses would be accepted.
I wonder if the Vulcans were loaded with ballast to simulate the weight of the relevant UK strategic free fall nuclear bombs in this time period ?
I seem to recall reading of SR71 overflights of other nations as well.
The survivors might also be able to bring back some useful SIGINT / ELINT data.. IMHO SR71 missions in a conventional WW3 context could present a bit of dilemma for the Soviets. If they make a max effort to shoot down the SR71's and fail to get all of them then the US may get useful data that might help B52's and other aircraft fly nuclear missions if things escalate. If they hold some tactics, equipment etc back for future use in a nuclear war and more SR71's complete their missions then the US gets what intel the surviving SR71's were able to collect.
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I have read several accounts of at least one mission over Libya that faced SA5's.
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Well to be fair some of the discussion was about the probability of air crew surviving to be captured which would seem relevant to me.
You didn't even watch the video, did you? Oh, dearie, dearie, me. It was two major air defence exercises for NORAD. It included bombers from Scotland and Bermuda. They approached over the pole and from the direction of Cuba (not that there were ever any substantial numbers of Soviet bombers stationed there in any case). In both cases, at least one or two Vulcans was successful and made it through to their targets, much to the chagrin of NORAD. It isn't the numbers of interceptors that are important, it is seeing where the targets are. Something NORAD proved unable to do.
Riain
Banned
SA5s and Mig25/31s and their associated radars/IADS aren't the most mobile and flexible instruments, yet are the only ones capable of threatening SR71s. Once the IGB or DMZ is breached the SR71 force would be conducting overflights behind the front line from day 1 with relative impunity, I think this task would be valuable enough that SR71s might not see much use in satellite-coverage gap-filling deep in the Soviet Union.
That said the Soviets know where RAF Mildenhall and Okinawa are, so these might eat a bunch of standoff weapons in order to cripple the SR71 force.
Civilian air liners are not routinely fitted with an IFF system. They have a responder that identifies who they are and what their heading and altitude are, but they operate on civilian frequencies for air traffic control. The Iranian airline was operating perfectly normally, however the USN didn't recognise that. The transponder was "off" was an excuse they tried to use but it didn't wash.
He was gung-ho. His ship had been sent to the Gulf to try and force passage for Kuwaiti tankers. On the days previous, there had been several small attacks by the Iranians on Kuwait/Saudi oil tankers. He apparently believed that the IRAF had suddenly decided to take part, all without evidence. He shot down a civilian airliner.
I like that now people are taking about downing Blackbirds with SAMs even Mirage 2000s.
Within 50kms the SA-5 will have a quite high kill probability .
The Mirage 2000s with the Super 530D will need an order of magnitude more of luck compared to MiG-31s with R-33s.
We also need a country to shoot down a Blackbird with Mirage 2000s India perhaps.
Kudos for one who can do that.
Within 50kms the SA-5 will have a quite high kill probability .
The Mirage 2000s with the Super 530D will need an order of magnitude more of luck compared to MiG-31s with R-33s.
We also need a country to shoot down a Blackbird with Mirage 2000s India perhaps.
Kudos for one who can do that.
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The Soviets attacking SR71 bases is a possibility but I suspect the Soviets had a long target list of targets for stand off weapons in a conventional WW3 and to some extent I suspect the Soviets would also want save assets for a potential nuclear conflict. I also seem to recall the USAF had U2's for the high altitude behind friendly lines missions, and the U2's at some point got a real time data link capability to send back results in real time that the SR71 apparently never received.
I could also see the USAF conducting SR71 overflights if they felt the use of nuclear weapons was becoming more likely. Getting up to date information on the air defenses within the Soviet Union might have been seen as worth the likely loss of some of the SR71's involved. On the other hand the Soviets might also have been tempted to use nuclear armed SAM's to destroy them.
Now this is what one calls overkill
. Additionally the need a launcher to be moved to a desolate area where they can fire it actually.Now this is what one calls overkill
Yep.. The SAM battery would need to be within range of the SR71 and presumably the USAF would try and route the SR71 away from known SAM sites that could threaten the SR71. All that being said a high performance SAM with a nuclear warhead would seem a potent threat to an SR71 that flew within range.
Hoping to end the drift but I doubt it
In both exercises 7 our of 8 Vulcan's got through to the targets as did a handful of B-47s and B-52s.
The Vulcan's were specifically assigned to fly possible "Soviet" attack profiles. They were spotted but only one (1) of the eight were intercepted from the Northern groups in both exercises. They were also assigned to fly through the thickest and most complete (east coast) sections of the early-warning line and were not intercepted till they reached Goose Bay.
And the intercept numbers were the same both times, out of eight "attacking" Vulcan's only one was intercepted from the Northern group and it was likely a "sacrifice" so the others could get through.
The Vulcan's in question were flying at maximum altitude the entire ingress and exit profile. That surprised me as well but there it is. They flew the most vulnerable type of mission and still made it through the ADC gauntlet along with a number of B-47s and B-52s. What surprised everyone was how MANY of the Vulcan's made it through both times. Seven out of eight and ONLY the Northern group was intercepted at all and they only lost one (1) aircraft on both missions.
Randy
In both exercises 7 our of 8 Vulcan's got through to the targets as did a handful of B-47s and B-52s.
The Vulcan's were specifically assigned to fly possible "Soviet" attack profiles. They were spotted but only one (1) of the eight were intercepted from the Northern groups in both exercises. They were also assigned to fly through the thickest and most complete (east coast) sections of the early-warning line and were not intercepted till they reached Goose Bay.
And the intercept numbers were the same both times, out of eight "attacking" Vulcan's only one was intercepted from the Northern group and it was likely a "sacrifice" so the others could get through.
The Vulcan's in question were flying at maximum altitude the entire ingress and exit profile. That surprised me as well but there it is. They flew the most vulnerable type of mission and still made it through the ADC gauntlet along with a number of B-47s and B-52s. What surprised everyone was how MANY of the Vulcan's made it through both times. Seven out of eight and ONLY the Northern group was intercepted at all and they only lost one (1) aircraft on both missions.
Randy
If it's true the Brits did a good thing not giving some to Argentina. The vulcans most probably could be modified to carry exocets.
marathag
Banned
What I seen for Sky Shield, 1 Vulcan was claimed as a kill near Goose Bay, with the remainder flyong over Eastern Canada, and landing in Newfoundland.
Another says a single Vulcan from Bermuda, got to an AFB in New York, and landed.
What targets were they assigned?
And again, Wargames are not the same as combat. They are there to test and evaluate, and both Red and Blue skirt the test parameters for advantages.
For combat, we know how older B-52s did, and that wasn't a WWIII setup, with the MiG bases and their SA-2 off the target list, rather than eating nukes from Hound Dog missiles.
Soviet Bombers were never tested in actual combat conditions like over Vietnam
Actually they were. They were used in Africa and Asian wars. Libya, Egypt, Iraq, India and Indonesia used them in various wars or skirmishes.