WI Spain was Muslim?

[sonicwind123]

Without a unified Spain, I can't see the conquest of the new world by Spain, which leads to a number of interesting developments. Without the gold from the new world, does Austria still grow into a major player, or remain a backwater kingdom. Then if does stay a backwater kingdom, does this allow for other powers in Eastern Europe to raise, or do the Ottomans dominate this region as well. The gold did help pay for the defense of Austria in the late 17th century. Then do the English, and France take more of the content without a rivalry from Spain. Also, the reformation would most likely take a different path, with Spain not in control of Rome. One would think, that the rivalry between Christian Spain, and France would be less, do to a common enemy, as well as the rivalry between Christian Spain and England. Also do you have the Crusades go on long with the attempt to take back Spain. I have read in a couple of book, that the retaking of Spain was more just part of the Crusades across Europe and the Holy Land.

 

[Broz]

without a strong Austria Ottomans rule most of OTL Hungary, and there is not much to stop them from sacking Viena ewery so often but the swamps in panonia

possibly there would be a difrent reconquista, with a muslim army unifying all of the Iberian penisula and stoping at the French border

 

[sonicwind123]

without a strong Austria Ottomans rule most of OTL Hungary, and there is not much to stop them from sacking Viena ewery so often but the swamps in panonia

possibly there would be a difrent reconquista, with a muslim army unifying all of the Iberian penisula and stoping at the French border

You also have a situation with a Weak Austria, for Poland to keep its power, or Prussia/another Germain state to come to power sooner.

I don't see, the reconquest of the northern part of Spain by the Muslim Kingdoms. The reason this is so, is that the British, or more then likely French would prevent it. That being said, the possibility of France to expand into at Northern Spain is high.

 

[rad_vsovereign]

A lot of people said that Al Andalus is militarily vulnerable.
That boggles me. I mean, when the Almoravids & Almohads ruled, just how strong were they vis-s-vis the Christians? How many were their soldiers & their muslim subjects?

Anyone?

 

[rcduggan]

Well, at first the Almoravids were more than a match for the Christian states (see Battle of Sagrajas). But when the Christians united together, I think they were more powerful than the Almoravids (IE: retaking of Saragossa). I can't say for the Almohads, because I don't know as much about them.

 

[Maharajah]

Well, for one thing, the rest of Europe would be much more hostile to the Spanish states, and might even fear them similar to how they freared the ottomans, having muslim countries on mainland europe. But of course Spain wouldn't be invading the rest Europe like the Ottomans, so the effect wouldn't be that great. Probably the muslim rulers would be more tolerant of other religions, too.

 

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

I find it hard to take the above statement seriously. The liberalizing effects of middle ages Europe? Please. Al-Andalus was in its time one of the most liberal states in Europe. Far more literary, and far more tolerant than its Christian neighbors. Indeed, as carlton_bach stated, Christian Europe owes much of the base of its liberalization, the Renaissance, to the works and manuscripts of muslim Spain.


And to be sure, this scenario would turn out much differently for the Jews. For one, with no Reconquista, there would follow no Inquisition as the Jews of Sepharad would be protected by the Muslim regime. As there is no Spanish Diaspora, there would be less and less incentive for jews to eventually settle in Poland, a land where only the those who profited from their labor (the nobles; only 10% of the population) wanted them there. Why bother when Spain offers real tolerance? Ashkenazic Jewry might never develop.

No Reconquista, No Spanish diaspora in the Americas and there would be no Portugal.

 

[Condottiero]

Why do you say there would be more tolerace for the jews? Jews were tolerated initially in al-Andalus because they were more reliable than the christians. They had suffered under visigothic rule and prefered muslims to christians. Once the islamic society in al-Andalus was more homogeneous, the jews were seen as a threat to homogeneity and they were not tolerated (that is why IOTL lots of jews settled in christian Hispania*, even though there were periodic "progroms" against them there).

If you have a more successful al-Andalus the jews and the christian minority would be seen as a dangerous threat and dealt according to it. You have also the integrist movements in northern Africa that would have expanded to al-Andalus.


* That is Spain and Portugal. Portugal is not something that would appear ASBishly.

 

[carlton_bach]

A lot of people said that Al Andalus is militarily vulnerable.
That boggles me. I mean, when the Almoravids & Almohads ruled, just how strong were they vis-s-vis the Christians? How many were their soldiers & their muslim subjects?

Both the Amoravids and Almohads were not dynasties from Al Andalus. Basically, they were the lesser of two evils, powerful protectors against the Christian princes to the north, but for all the shared religious background, foreigners. Claiming them as evidence fore the military power of Muslim Spain is like pointing out that the Prussians, for all their vaunted military might, never took Warsaw between 1780 and 1914, therefore Poland must have been powerful.