WI Spain remained Habsburg until 19th century?

The Bourbon seem to have believed centralization would reduce corruption, and corruption did indeed reduce in the eighteenth century. Of course, it may very well have been thanks to other factors.

I know next to nothing on the topic, just thought I would lead the discussion to that of whether the loss of Habsburg dynastic rule led to less corruption.
 
I know next to nothing on the topic, just thought I would lead the discussion to that of whether the loss of Habsburg dynastic rule led to less corruption.

Well, if we're assuming that Carlos III (OTL Karl VI) stays put in Spain - either because Josef I survives or leaves a son or whatever - and he's already married to Elisabeth Christine of Brunswick, then things might go very well - for both Spain and Austria. Now, Karl is a dolt - which I don't see changing, but it also means that his doltishness is removed from Austria - so no loss of Turkish territories, no ridiculous pragmatic sanction, blah-blah. Josef is good friends with Prince Eugen of Savoy, which means he migth actually listen to Savoy telling him that the only way to ensure female succession is soldiers not signatures. As to Spain, well, I'm not entirely sure, but Elisabeth Christine was more than competent (AFAIK) as regent in Barcelona, so I could see more along the lines of King Isabel Cristina. And if they only have daughters, so what? It's not as though Spain hasn't had queens before. But, I feel that if Carlos is spending more time with wifey, we might see a kid born more than 7yrs after they got married. Although I can't say that the Spanish doctors will necessarily keep the boy alive. I read in a bio on Velasquez that in Spain at the close of the 17th century (but during Velasquez' lifetime too) they generally sent for the priests before they sent for the doctors. And the doctors were little more than quacks and charlatans. So hopefully Carlos brings a decent German/Italian/English doctor with him. Maybe he even sets up a medical school?
 
Well, if we're assuming that Carlos III (OTL Karl VI) stays put in Spain - either because Josef I survives or leaves a son or whatever - and he's already married to Elisabeth Christine of Brunswick, then things might go very well - for both Spain and Austria. Now, Karl is a dolt - which I don't see changing, but it also means that his doltishness is removed from Austria - so no loss of Turkish territories, no ridiculous pragmatic sanction, blah-blah. Josef is good friends with Prince Eugen of Savoy, which means he migth actually listen to Savoy telling him that the only way to ensure female succession is soldiers not signatures. As to Spain, well, I'm not entirely sure, but Elisabeth Christine was more than competent (AFAIK) as regent in Barcelona, so I could see more along the lines of King Isabel Cristina. And if they only have daughters, so what? It's not as though Spain hasn't had queens before. But, I feel that if Carlos is spending more time with wifey, we might see a kid born more than 7yrs after they got married. Although I can't say that the Spanish doctors will necessarily keep the boy alive. I read in a bio on Velasquez that in Spain at the close of the 17th century (but during Velasquez' lifetime too) they generally sent for the priests before they sent for the doctors. And the doctors were little more than quacks and charlatans. So hopefully Carlos brings a decent German/Italian/English doctor with him. Maybe he even sets up a medical school?
The 'ridiculous' pragmatic sanction doesn't go away, especially if TTL Charles doesn't have any sons. Joseph doesn't have any sons, and can't produce any due to venereal disease, so you're stuck with the same issue of succession. the pragmatic sanction originated with Leopold's mutual pact of succession in 1703, putting the line of succession,( sans any sons between the two) as Joseph's daughters, then Charles' daughters. Charles merely switched his daughters taking precedence. Joseph, by most accounts, is more capable than Charles, so he probably doesn't prostitute Austria trying to get folks to support the sanction, but it's still a major issue.

Elizabeth Christine didn't help the cause in Austria, so it's doubtful she's going to help the cause in Spain.
 
I can't begin to imagine what genetic horror show would come about from a Spanish Hapsburg line that lasted that long... :eek::eek::eek:

Just have the Spanish queens be more unfaithful (without the king finding out) and you get in more new genes.
 
Just have the Spanish queens be more unfaithful (without the king finding out) and you get in more new genes.

Not really likely (or doable). In Spain the person of the queen was sacrosanct, and all the court knew it. The king was the only one allowed to touch her. Spain had a bad experience with la Beltraneja and didn't fancy a repeat.

The 'ridiculous' pragmatic sanction doesn't go away, especially if TTL Charles doesn't have any sons. Joseph doesn't have any sons, and can't produce any due to venereal disease, so you're stuck with the same issue of succession. the pragmatic sanction originated with Leopold's mutual pact of succession in 1703, putting the line of succession,( sans any sons between the two) as Joseph's daughters, then Charles' daughters. Charles merely switched his daughters taking precedence. Joseph, by most accounts, is more capable than Charles, so he probably doesn't prostitute Austria trying to get folks to support the sanction, but it's still a major issue.

Elizabeth Christine didn't help the cause in Austria, so it's doubtful she's going to help the cause in Spain.

The POD was set in 1700, namely that the Austrian candidate wins the WotSS. Now, the only way that's gonna happen if there isn't a hope in Hell of Carlos III succeeding to the imperial throne. So, either Empress Wilhelmine needs to die (and Josef remarries to someone who gives him a surviving son) or her son needs to live or one of her daughters is born male.

With a healthy grandson (or at least the prospect of one) Leopold might not promulgate the Succession Pact. When he set it up in 1703, the situation was Wilhelmine couldn't have more kids, Josef's son was dead, and Karl was off campaigning in Spain (unmarried and childless). In TTL he's perhaps not as despondent (unless Josef's already remarried and the new wife hasn't conceived yet or is too young or whatever).

As to Elisabeth Christine, IDK what the reason was for her and Karl's late start. Her brother-in-law, the tsarevich despised her sister and yet still managed to knock her up pretty soon after the wedding. Karl and Lieschen took 7years. Now if you wanna make the argument there's a war on and they aren't together all the time, Felipe V and his first wife managed 4 kids between 1707 and 1713 (four years and they're a lot more related than Karl-Lieschen). 3 of those kids would've been conceived before the treaties were signed. So, if we're gonna say Elisabeth Christine failed in Austria, I think her husband at least gets part of the blame. And besides, there's another four years (1711-1715) where Karl was apparently not getting his wife preggers - why I don't know. If I knew I was the last guy in my family and I needed a son(s), I'd be going at it like a rabbit with my wife (who looks like the 18th century's version of a Victoria's Secret model) in the hopes of fathering one. Hell, I'd probably be doing that even if I didn't need a son. Not doing god knows what Karl was doing between April 1708 and July 1715 and then again between September 1718 and July 1723.
 
Which means the Dutch keep Brasil and a couple other places (most likely)...

The Dutch couldn't keep Brazil for much more, the local population was tired from the dutch domination, even the elites due the high taxes. The force that pushed the dutch back was not a portuguese army deployed in Brazil, it was a Brazilian army (raised by local portuguese commanders), with or without the end of the Iberian Union, the battle of the Guararapes still would happen.
 
Not really likely (or doable). In Spain the person of the queen was sacrosanct, and all the court knew it. The king was the only one allowed to touch her. Spain had a bad experience with la Beltraneja and didn't fancy a repeat.



The POD was set in 1700, namely that the Austrian candidate wins the WotSS. Now, the only way that's gonna happen if there isn't a hope in Hell of Carlos III succeeding to the imperial throne. So, either Empress Wilhelmine needs to die (and Josef remarries to someone who gives him a surviving son) or her son needs to live or one of her daughters is born male.

With a healthy grandson (or at least the prospect of one) Leopold might not promulgate the Succession Pact. When he set it up in 1703, the situation was Wilhelmine couldn't have more kids, Josef's son was dead, and Karl was off campaigning in Spain (unmarried and childless). In TTL he's perhaps not as despondent (unless Josef's already remarried and the new wife hasn't conceived yet or is too young or whatever).

As to Elisabeth Christine, IDK what the reason was for her and Karl's late start. Her brother-in-law, the tsarevich despised her sister and yet still managed to knock her up pretty soon after the wedding. Karl and Lieschen took 7years. Now if you wanna make the argument there's a war on and they aren't together all the time, Felipe V and his first wife managed 4 kids between 1707 and 1713 (four years and they're a lot more related than Karl-Lieschen). 3 of those kids would've been conceived before the treaties were signed. So, if we're gonna say Elisabeth Christine failed in Austria, I think her husband at least gets part of the blame. And besides, there's another four years (1711-1715) where Karl was apparently not getting his wife preggers - why I don't know. If I knew I was the last guy in my family and I needed a son(s), I'd be going at it like a rabbit with my wife (who looks like the 18th century's version of a Victoria's Secret model) in the hopes of fathering one. Hell, I'd probably be doing that even if I didn't need a son. Not doing god knows what Karl was doing between April 1708 and July 1715 and then again between September 1718 and July 1723.
Joseph had a venereal disease which sterilized him. remarriage doesn't do any good. but, yeah, if the OTL son lives, or second daughter grows a pair, er, is born a male, that does change things.
I read somewhere that Elisabeth was given all sorts of fertility potions in an attempt to provide a male heir. given the technology of the day in such matters, it would surprise me if it played havoc with her body. allegedly, there were a lot of side affects, including her growing so large she needed to be hoisted around with a crane. I can't recall the source, so I can't vouch for accuracy, but if true, there might have been physical impairment/difficulties in coitus or conception.
 
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