I'm willing to bet there has been a thread on this before but I'll post this one anyway. The question is, while hitler is trying to negotiate with the Poles in 1938-39 Stalin gets impatient and invades Poland in July 1939? And after Poland is mostly defeated hurler sends in his troops to seize his half of Poland in September. Basically reversing the OTL roles of these two. My question is, is what would Britain and France do in this scenario? Declare war on the soviets? I honestly don't know. What do you guys think?
WI: Soviets invade Poland first?
- Thread starter Ethan387
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Hitler, I would think.
First, it that happened, Hitler would be very pissed off
Second. Why would Stalin make such a mistake?
BTW, in July 1939 the Molotov Ribbentrop agreement wasn't signed yet
First, it that happened, Hitler would be very pissed off
Second. Why would Stalin make such a mistake?
BTW, in July 1939 the Molotov Ribbentrop agreement wasn't signed yet
Britain most certainly will do nothing. Britain had NO commitment to defend the territorial integrity of Poland Vis a vis the Soviet Union, and had always carefully avoided making any such commitment. Her guarantee to ''defend'' Poland applied to Germany only. This scenario will not change that. I doubt France will do anything either.
Unlike Hitler, Stalin could wait, and he knew this. In 1939 Stalin had no reason to hurry. France and Britain didn't fight to protect Poland against Germany, which they saw as the more immediate threat, so they aren't likely to support Poland against the USSR.
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Hitler, I would think.
First, it that happened, Hitler would be very pissed off
Second. Why would Stalin make such a mistake?
BTW, in July 1939 the Molotov Ribbentrop agreement wasn't signed yet
Ugg then August? Idk anymore. He would make that mistake cuz he gets a nervous episode
Question for the gallery:
Was there a stipulation in the M-R Pact that determined who would invade first? Or was it assumed as soon as one moved across the border, the other would as well somewhat simultaneously?
If it wasn't, then what if Hitler negotiated that Stalin should make a move first?
Was there a stipulation in the M-R Pact that determined who would invade first? Or was it assumed as soon as one moved across the border, the other would as well somewhat simultaneously?
If it wasn't, then what if Hitler negotiated that Stalin should make a move first?
I haven't heard of any such stipulations.
If he had tried, Stalin would have reminded him that Hitler was the one who could not afford to wait.
If Stalin attacks first and Poland, in desperation, ask Germany to assist militarily and agrees to the last terms that Herr Hitler wants for Danzig and a strip of land corridor from Germany to East Prussia...
How will that make Herr Hitler feel once he realizes that Stalin is a nervous nelly and can't totally be trusted to wait until Germany attacks first as he probably was planning but was per-empted by a probably agitated Stalin...
Maybe he'll break the M-R secret treaty because Stalin attack first but what would be the gain for Herr Hitler...
Maybe get the French and British on his side against a crazed Soviet Union out to dominate Eastern Europe and possibly Central Europe for their military adventurism ???
How will that make Herr Hitler feel once he realizes that Stalin is a nervous nelly and can't totally be trusted to wait until Germany attacks first as he probably was planning but was per-empted by a probably agitated Stalin...
Maybe he'll break the M-R secret treaty because Stalin attack first but what would be the gain for Herr Hitler...
Maybe get the French and British on his side against a crazed Soviet Union out to dominate Eastern Europe and possibly Central Europe for their military adventurism ???
I agree with Britain and France doing nothing. What is interesting is what is negotiated between Germany and Russia afterwards. Hitler now has his mortal enemy much closer to him than he wants but needs to maintain peace between him and Stalin in order to know off the French and British. He does not have the capability to attack Russia at that moment. He has to have a non aggression pact with Stalin. If he doesn't get it he just has to keep building his military and has to take the Russians out first before France and Britain.
If anything, Stalin was the opposite of nervous. He was extremely cautious in his foreign policy moves.
And no one would care : France offered Stalin the half of Poland Hilter offered him in exchange for an alliance against the Germans. No one really gave a fuck about Poland, but everyone was extremely nervous about Hitler.
I doubt that Russia would act as described here in a scenario thats OTL up to mid 39.
It gets interesting if Germany is the "lesser" threat to Poland (but then we must get rid of teh Nazis).
If a Weimar republic for example seems to suessfully negotiate with Poland for the return of Danzig and extended "passage" rights. The Soviet might fear a German Polish pact and "act" to avoid being "too" late.
It gets interesting if Germany is the "lesser" threat to Poland (but then we must get rid of teh Nazis).
If a Weimar republic for example seems to suessfully negotiate with Poland for the return of Danzig and extended "passage" rights. The Soviet might fear a German Polish pact and "act" to avoid being "too" late.