WI: Soviet Union with Mongolia

Wolfpaw

Banned
I'd say all would go as OTL up to 1945.
But there could be big butterflies in Manchuria (which was occupied by the red army).
SSR Manchuko, anyone?
Incorporating Manchuria into the USSR would just be stupid and everybody knew it. You'd have a resentful population far more loyal to Beijing than Moscow and whatever other gains there would be would be minimal or insignificant when compared to the general antipathy the populace would feel towards their Russian overlords. Mongolia is one thing, Manchuria is quite another.
 

I still have trouble seeing this. The Soviets had a mutual defense treaty with Mongolia, had an entire army literally invited in by the Mongolian government, the head of state was married to a Russian woman who was very good friends with Leonid Brezhnev--Mongolia was a de facto SSR. Mongolia being part of the USSR de jure is just going to irritate the Chinese a bit more than they already were. There's no reason to think that this is going to aggravate them to any significantly greater degree.
Now the de jure and the de facto part is the important point here. That's something about diplomacy so that everyone could keep their face.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Now the de jure and the de facto part is the important point here. That's something about diplomacy so that everyone could keep their face.
Indeed de facto and de jure are important to the face-saving situation (which is one of the most important aspects of foreign policy), but again a lot of this depends on the when and why Mongolia became an SSR in the first place. If the Mongolians/Mongolian government opted for it, there's not a whole lot the Chinese can complain about. Or if Stalin just out-and-out tells Mao that Russia's taking it, Mao is going to accept it. He'll be pissed, but he'll accept it since 1) he's in no position to negotiate, 2) the USSR will probably compensate China well, and 3) Mao was devoted to Stalin.

Again, the whole situation is going to rub China the wrong way, but not to any significant degree. It'll just be a giant (though grudgingly tolerable) middle finger to Beijing.
 
Incorporating Manchuria into the USSR would just be stupid and everybody knew it. You'd have a resentful population far more loyal to Beijing than Moscow and whatever other gains there would be would be minimal or insignificant when compared to the general antipathy the populace would feel towards their Russian overlords.

Stalin.

.
 
hmmm.... Looking throught this thread i did not realise it would start such a debate....

For entry into the USSR lets say it happened right when they became communist in 1924, or in 1939 for security against teh Japanese, or in 1945 for something to help rebuild the USSR

just some suggestion
 
OOC: Good times. I was playing Superpower 2 a few months ago and played as the USSR. I aimed at getting Mongolia to convert to an SSR. I built up relations, and they still refused. I signed an alliance with them and deployed my military units within their borders. I then launched a suprise attack and annex Mongolia. Apparently, NATO, the USA and UN didn't like this. To make a long story short, World War III occured and the world was destroyed in a nuclear hellfire.

I have no idea what this post is supposed to mean.

I believe it is slang for "Man of Steel" or something along those lines.
 
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Stalker

Banned
Incorporating Manchuria into the USSR would just be stupid and everybody knew it. You'd have a resentful population far more loyal to Beijing than Moscow and whatever other gains there would be would be minimal or insignificant when compared to the general antipathy the populace would feel towards their Russian overlords. Mongolia is one thing, Manchuria is quite another.
Until 1945 Harbin, for instance, was a typical Russian city where Chinese were a minority. There were also Cossac settlements - so called Cossacks of Seven Rivers Valley. There were much more Civil War immigrants as well as the old Russian population settled there since the time of construction of Chinese Eastern Railway.The куые ща еру population was mainly indifferent to Beijing and could hail whoever from Puyi to Stalin. The point is that the Russian population of Manchuria was less inclined to submit to the Soviets.
What concerns Mongolia, USSR was cautious in that matter not to spoli relations both with Chiang Kai-shek and Mao until 1943 not finally choosing the person on whom to out their stakes. But as Chiang Kai-shek demonstrated his pro-American orientation, the only facceptible figure for the Soviets was Mao. However, irrespective of the political figure, China - any China, Communist or Nationalist alike - would strongly oppose any attempt of incorporation of Mongolia into a different country.
 
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