WI: Soviet Union with Mongolia

As the title says: what if The Soviet Union included The Mongolian SSR (Or PR of Mongolia or whatever) what would be the result on the cold war, WWII, Post Cold war, and USSR relations in Asia

My number one question is would Stalin make the mongolians industrialize, and how that would change the modern world
 
It is unlikely that Stalin would do anything for the Mongolians (atleast no different then what he did for what he did in th erest of the Soviet Union). Infrastucture, however, may be greatly improved.
 
The USSR would look really ugly with a big lump underneath it. I think Mongolia would improve China's aesthetic though.
 
The USSR would look really ugly with a big lump underneath it. I think Mongolia would improve China's aesthetic though.
Don't let my wife read that. She would rip you head up.
The common mongolians are speaking very ill of chinese people (and vice versa) but feel somewhat friendly against the russians as the USSR protected them from china. but is very unlikly that the USSR would have accepted mongolia as a SSR. They used it as a buffer between them and china.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
A lot depends on when the USSR absorbs Mongolia.

An interesting thing to see would be how the Soviets would develop the place. Chinese laborers/funding sent by Beijing in the early years of the Cold War built up the majority of industries, housing, infrastructure, etc. in Ulaanbaatar, but they stopped after Mongolia picked Moscow in the Sino-Soviet split.

Since Mongolia is an actual SSR ITTL, the Soviets will probably invest more in building the place up than the Chinese laborers did. They Soviets will probably very strategic when it comes to things like building up roads and rail lines and the like in Mongolia because that's going to be the first place Chinese tanks rumble through in the event of a (conventional) Sino-Soviet War, and Moscow's not going to want to make things easy for the PLA.
 

Since Mongolia is an actual SSR ITTL, the Soviets will probably invest more in building the place up than the Chinese laborers did. They Soviets will probably very strategic when it comes to things like building up roads and rail lines and the like in Mongolia because that's going to be the first place Chinese tanks rumble through in the event of a (conventional) Sino-Soviet War, and Moscow's not going to want to make things easy for the PLA.
A sino-soviet war wasn't so unlikly as the Amur-Incident of 1969 proves.
With mongolia as a SSR a war would have been even more likly. Perhaps almost certain. Some radical elements in china have seen and still see mongolia as a renegade part of the chinese realm with as to be brought back in line like tibet or the uygurs.
 
Aside from causing more tensions with China and Mongolia being far more developed when the USSR desolves, it would have a very small impact.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
A sino-soviet war wasn't so unlikly as the Amur-Incident of 1969 proves.
And the fact that the USSR was planning on nuking China in '69 until Nixon sternly told them that America would back Beijing to the hilt is yet more evidence ;)
With mongolia as a SSR a war would have been even more likly. Perhaps almost certain. Some radical elements in china have seen and still see mongolia as a renegade part of the chinese realm with as to be brought back in line like tibet or the uygurs.
Chinese revanchists aren't going to be able to push China into a war over Mongolia. The Soviets had stationed an entire army there in the '60s and the war still didn't occur (for reasons stated above). Again, I can't see how the situation would be all that different apart from an even larger Sino-Soviet frontier.

Besides, most of the revanchists who still wanted to incorporate Mongolia back into China were to be found in the ROC leadership, not that of the PRC.
 
What others are saying: worsened Sino-Soviet relations, more infrastructure in Mongolia. The Mongolian professional classes might well end up rather Russophone like those in Central Asia.
 
Interesting idea really.
What would hapen for Mongolia in this situation- bleh, boring.
But...it would really hurt things with China a lot...I think the odds are very very good indeed we would get a Chinese-Soviet war.
 


Besides, most of the revanchists who still wanted to incorporate Mongolia back into China were to be found in the ROC leadership, not that of the PRC.
Yes the most of many were to be found in the ROC but there were also as well in the PRC. The only thing that prevented china to bring mongolia back was the fact, as you stated, that the USSR has stationed their army in mongolia and gave mongolia the garuantee of their independence.
But on the other side china would have been more than unhappy if an independent mongolia would have become a integral part of the SSR.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Yes the most of many were to be found in the ROC but there were also as well in the PRC.
Quite right. I never said otherwise, I was just pointing out that the revanchists wouldn't be able to push China into a war with the Soviets over Mongolia. The place was going to be invaded in the event of a war anyways, so the revanchists aren't really going to be bringing anything new to the table.
The only thing that prevented china to bring mongolia back was the fact, as you stated, that the USSR has stationed their army in mongolia and gave mongolia the garuantee of their independence.
Stalin's stern rebuff of Mao's request to reincorporate Mongolia didn't hurt either.
But on the other side china would have been more than unhappy if an independent mongolia would have become a integral part of the SSR.
I still have trouble seeing this. The Soviets had a mutual defense treaty with Mongolia, had an entire army literally invited in by the Mongolian government, the head of state was married to a Russian woman who was very good friends with Leonid Brezhnev--Mongolia was a de facto SSR. Mongolia being part of the USSR de jure is just going to irritate the Chinese a bit more than they already were. There's no reason to think that this is going to aggravate them to any significantly greater degree.
 
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I'd say all would go as OTL up to 1945.
But there could be big butterflies in Manchuria (which was occupied by the red army).
SSR Manchuko, anyone?
 
I'd say all would go as OTL up to 1945.
But there could be big butterflies in Manchuria (which was occupied by the red army).
SSR Manchuko, anyone?

Don't see why anything would be different. The butterflies from any POD are history-changing (at least that's the way I see it), but there's nothing about Soviet Mongolia that would directly impact Soviet policy toward Manchuria in '45.
 
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