WI: Soviet Union tries to re-capture Alaska during the Cold War?

[Monk78]

US does not need to launch nukes in response, USMC can take care of the Soviets easily and cause a huge embarrassment for them internationally. There is no way they can resupply the initial landing , this project is just as doomed as sea lion.
Once nukes are launched by US first it gives WP golden opportunity to flatten NATO bases in Europe with IRBMs

 

[David T]

People are paying too much attention to the body. The title is “tries to re-capture,” not "opposed multiple corps landing."

In 1954 the Khrushchev summarised political committee decides that humiliating the United States via its back door is essential. The chosen method is patient long term work with indigenous communities via covert organisations: the matter is not treated as a political "Delegate to CPUSA" item, but rather as an internal state matter in a constituent republic merely occupied by a foreign power. As such the underground network is recruited from Americans who are recuited by front organisations recruited by front organisations, with little if at all direct connection back to official Soviet Views. This increases the effectiveness of the activity as, on the surface level, it seems to be protestant charity combined with some kind of national self-respect stuff.

Obviously the attempt to re-capture fails, but results in a very different 1970s in Alaska as a variety of the seeded and economically assisted talented tenth / bourgeois nationalist / anti-US pro-indigenous stuff percolates. Possibly peaking at cross borders criminal undergrounds. Giving Canada and Washington State a messier 1980s as well. The current status is a low intensity primarily criminal cross-border network of anti-state conducts, combined with an inherent anti-US and partially anti-government mentality in indigenous communities. This makes Alaskan policing 'fun' for all involved. It also makes Alaska viewed internationally as a festering ulcer of hypocrisy.

yours,
Sam R.

Dear Comrade Sam R.:

Surely Hawaii offers much better prospects for detachment from US imperialism: a larger indigenous community and a much larger Communist presence due to the ILWU (with strength among Filipinos and Japanese as well as Native Hawaiians). The situation was worrisome enough for Hollywood to make a John Wayne movie about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Jim_McLain

Unfortunately, instead of following a correct, Leninist line on self-determination up to and including independence, Comrade Jack Hall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Hall_(trade_unionist) and the rest went along with bourgeois reformers like John A. Burns, resulting in the petty bourgeois "Democratic Revolution of 1954": "The Hilo Longshoremen led by Jack Kawano began unified strikes in the 1930s. The Hilo Longshoremen merged with the ILWU, and Jack Wayne Hall was sent to Hawaii. Among these unified strikes was the disastrous 1938 strike in Hilo against the Inter-Island Steamship Company. During World War II striking was put on hold as the members dedicated their efforts towards the war. In 1944 the ILWU and Communist Party of Hawaii put their support behind the Democratic Party since it became apparent that Burns and his movement wanted to empower the working class. This meeting in 1944 has been considered the beginning of the movement. The movement became known as the "Burns Machine".[3] Burns admitted in 1975 that Communist Party members in the ILWU provided vital experience in maintaining secrecy and organizing support among labor workers while keeping the early movement underground.[4]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Democratic_Revolution_of_1954

See Lenin's letter to the Socialist Propaganda League in 1915: "And we assert that Socialists in America, especially English Socialists, belonging to the ruling, and oppressing nation, who are not against any restrictions of immigration, against the possession of colonies (Hawaii) and for the entire freedom of colonies, that such Socialists are in reality jingoes." https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/nov/09.htm Unfortunately, Lenin's epigones ignored his teachings and got trapped in the morass of popular-frontism.

With Bolshevik-Leninist greetings,

David T

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

So the Soviet Union invades the United States 49th state?

 

[Gillan1220]

I don't know what leadership in the USSR was dumb enough to do this because that would require large airlift and sealift, neither the Soviets possessed up until the 1980s. This is in the face of nuclear resistance which the U.S. had more weapons against the USSR until the 1960s.

There were fears of an invasion of Alaska during the Korean War hence why the CIA trained the Aluet and Eskimos on how to conduct guerrilla warfare before the regular Armed Forces could repel the Soviets.

Operation Washtub (United States) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In early Cold War years, U.S. prepped for possible invasion of Alaska

Fearing a Russian invasion and occupation of Alaska, the U.S. government in the early Cold War years recruited and trained fishermen, bush pilots, trappers and other private citizens across Alaska for a covert network to feed wartime intelligence to the military, newly declassified Air Force and...

www.pbs.org

The FBI's Secret Plan to Fight Soviets in Alaska

Give a bunch of guns and gold to hearty, tattooed Alaskans, and turn them loose.

www.outsideonline.com

Operation Washtub: How Alaskans Were Trained in a Top Secret ‘Stay-Behind’ Program During the Cold War

The Soviet Union and the United States may have been allies during World War II, but during the 1950s, the two nations were in the midst of the Cold War, a stand-off between two of the world’s most influential superpowers that had both nations threatening nuclear annihilation. While the Atomic...

coffeeordie.com

My Russian historian friend told me the Soviets did have plans to attack Alaska, but not to hold onto it because that would mean a waste of resources in which majority of the state is barren frozen land. The plan was to attack air fields, the oil fields, and the Alaska Pipeline to disrupt operations.

 

[Deleted member 2186]

Full nuclear exchange ring a bell?

Sounds like the end of the World War III (miniseries)

 

[Arkenfolm]

Could the Soviets try to capture some American island's near the Bering Strait, like St Lawrence Island or Little Dimodode Island and use them as a barging chip against the Americans?

St. Lawrence Island had an air station and a population of over a thousand, many of whom were WWII veterans of the Alaska Territorial Guard and thus trained in home defense, recon, and delaying operations. Little Diomede would be an easier operation, although among the 100 people who live there, a significant number were expelled from Big Diomede Island when the Soviets built a base there.

Either way, it's a pointless operation since there's no conceivable scenario that it ends with a single gain for the Soviets, only some serious concessions. That is, unless they get lucky in a subsequent WWIII.

 

[CalBear]

Sounds like the end of the World War III (miniseries)

That may be the most stereotypical 1980s TV miniseries cast I've ever seen. All it needed was Richard Chamberlain to to reach singularity.

 

[Gillan1220]

That may be the most stereotypical 1980s TV miniseries cast I've ever seen. All it needed was Richard Chamberlain to to reach singularity.

It also reminds me of Amerika mockumentary where in the USSR manages to decapitate bombers, silos, and subs, forcing the President to order a stand-down while the Red Army occupies the CONUS.

 

[Resurgam]

Nukes fall, a lot of people (perhaps eventually everyone) die.

 

[Falloutfan]

Lenin isn't shot during the Russian Civil War leading to Stalin being sidelined, the Red Terror being slightly less terrifying and more democratic unionist elements of the Soviet Union win out the 1920s due to Lenin's change of perspective.

Trotsky is still sidelined for being a Jew and Lenin dies for unrelated medical reasons by 1930. The NEP Party conservatives and pro-democracy forces in the U.S.S.R. seize control. Stalin is still around but as in OTL goes with the popular faction to retain some degree of control.

The 1930-1941 U.S.S.R. rapidly industrializes focusing on heavy industry but doesn't force the peasants into work camps, doesn't starve their citizens and doesn't purge their military officer class. This U.S.S.R. is less industrialized than OTL counterpart by the time Barbarossa starts but it has a more effective military caste and millions of more productive subjects who also somewhat like the regime.

Barbarossa still goes well at first for the Nazis due to the relative lack of industrialization but the distances involved still bog down the Nazis and they face more stiff partisan resistance since the Communists weren't asshats to the locals since the original Red Terror.

Stalin manages to take over by 42 but he's not the totalitarian version we know instead he acts more like his early career in OTL working the angles and groups within the bureaucracy. He declares the Nazi invasion to the gates of Moscow as proof of the failure of the NEP and enacts War Communism again.

The Soviet population that remains under their control is fully mobilized by mid 42 only without any purges or non regular penal gulags. The economy is fully nationalized and every man, woman and child is sent into action to protect the motherland. Lend and Lease also begins to make an impact.

By spring of 46 the Nazis are defeated with the Red Army parked in mid-Poland a bit to the West of Warsaw. Stalin tries to keep War Communism and his centralized rule going and is shot by the NKVD who have the backing of the major NEP resultant industrialist factions and unions.

In practice past 1947 the Soviet Union and less Warsaw Pact are ruled as a syndicatalist quasi-democratic union with some property rights. Light industry and matters of non-national security concern are allowed to remain under market mechanisms of distribution.

This ATL Soviet Union is able to have a faster economic growth period during the 1950s and doesn't slow in the 70s and 80s like OTL with the Soviets adopting computerization and by 2000 working out central planning to the scale of say OTL Wal Mart for the distribution of goods. By 2010 this ATL U.S.S.R. economy is the size of OTL China of the same year.

Meanwhile the U.S. had a POD in the 1950s and the Civil Rights Movement is derailed. By the time you get to the 1990s go read Rumsfielda the U.S. balkanizes like OTL U.S.S.R. Alaska becomes independent. As the OTL 2022 U.S. mainland regime consolidates power and makes moves to retake Washington State the Republic of Alaska votes to join the U.S.S.R. as a colony of sorts in exchange for protection from the U.S.

The Second Cold War begins.

 

[Deleted member 2186]

It also reminds me of Amerika mockumentary where in the USSR manages to decapitate bombers, silos, and subs, forcing the President to order a stand-down while the Red Army occupies the CONUS.

That was due a EMP bomb over the United States if i remember correctly.

 

[Gillan1220]

That was due a EMP bomb over the United States if i remember correctly.

It also involved a strike on Fairchild AFB, WA and Wright Patterson AFB, OH where the B-52s are as well as the nuclear submarine bases in Bangor, WA and Kings Bay, GA. The Midwest silos were taken out too.

 

[Deleted member 2186]

It also involved a strike on Fairchild AFB, WA and Wright Patterson AFB, OH where the B-52s are as well as the nuclear submarine bases in Bangor, WA and Kings Bay, GA. The Midwest silos were taken out too.

Really, i read on on the Amerika (miniseries) Wikipedia page that:

Four large thermonuclear weapons are detonated in the ionosphere over the United States. The resulting electromagnetic pulse (or EMP) destroys the nation's communications and computer systems, cripples the U.S. electrical grid, and affects any equipment that relies on computer technology, such as most late-model automobiles. With its ICBMs inoperative—and the National Command Authority unable to contact U.S. military forces abroad or their foreign allies in western Europe to launch a counterattack—the U.S. is forced to accept Soviet terms for surrender: unilateral disarmament, the end of the dollar as a reserve currency, and integration into the Soviet military/economic bloc.

 

[CalBear]

It also reminds me of Amerika mockumentary where in the USSR manages to decapitate bombers, silos, and subs, forcing the President to order a stand-down while the Red Army occupies the CONUS.

Naw. Needed a couple more of the regular suspects. Nick Nolte, Stacy Keach, maybe Robert Mitchum.

Really, i read on on the Amerika (miniseries) Wikipedia page that:

Four large thermonuclear weapons are detonated in the ionosphere over the United States. The resulting electromagnetic pulse (or EMP) destroys the nation's communications and computer systems, cripples the U.S. electrical grid, and affects any equipment that relies on computer technology, such as most late-model automobiles. With its ICBMs inoperative—and the National Command Authority unable to contact U.S. military forces abroad or their foreign allies in western Europe to launch a counterattack—the U.S. is forced to accept Soviet terms for surrender: unilateral disarmament, the end of the dollar as a reserve currency, and integration into the Soviet military/economic bloc.

The miniseries itself was specifically created as a counterpoint to The Day After.

Needless to say it did not have the same impact.

 

[Blyatnik]

Per Clausewitz, either option would be a diplomatic response.

I can't imagine any Soviet leader, even dementia-ridden Stalin, giving an invasion order and then living longer than 5 minutes to find out how it ends up.

His order would have to get through the Air Force and Navy commands, who would relay that to STAVKA, who would personally invite Stalin to a quaint brick walled building with sound-proof padding lining the walls.

 

[IanS]

Nuclear war happens

 

[Monk78]

Nuclear war happens

But why?
The coast guard can sink the landing ships that make it this far
And the few dozen soviet marines can be rounded up by national guard
No soviet tactical aircraft can fly this far
US using nukes first gives Soviets an excuse to nuke Western Europe

 

[IanS]

But why?
The coast guard can sink the landing ships that make it this far
And the few dozen soviet marines can be rounded up by national guard
No soviet tactical aircraft can fly this far
US using nukes first gives Soviets an excuse to nuke Western Europe

Because remember, once the US and Soviets declare war on each other, which the Soviets invading Alaska would assuredly guarantee. The rest of NATO and Warsaw Pact would be drawn in and once the Cold War turns hot, the entire situation would rapidly escalate until just one side launches a tatical nuke, then the war would escalate from there

 

[Euphemios]

This probably ends with humiliation for the Russians, not with a nuclear war. Neither the Soviet Union nor the United States are going to risk total destruction over a patch of tundra barely visible on a map.

 

[Dave Howery]

That may be the most stereotypical 1980s TV miniseries cast I've ever seen. All it needed was Richard Chamberlain to to reach singularity.

saw the miniseries and read the book. Wasn't one of the 'Starsky and Hutch" actors in it too?