WI Soviet/Russian Aircraft Carrier Ulyanovsk

What if in 1991 the newly formed Russian Navy decides not to scrap the then under construction 75,000t nuclear powered aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk but press ahead through hell and high water to keep the dream of a true blue water navy alive?

Even if she couldn't be completed by 1995 as planned could construction be paused to be resumed at a later date?

Bonus points if anyone can think of a way for the Russians to operate both Ulyanovsk and Admiral Kuznetsov at the same time giving the Russia a two carrier fleet.
Gold star/smiley face sticker for anyone who can also bring the Kuznetsov's sistership Varyag into service.

Ulyanovsk
ATAKR%20Pr.1143.7%20Ulyanovsk.png

Admiral Kuznetsov
TAKR%20Pr.1143.5%20Admiral%20Flota%20Sovetskogo%20Sojuza%20Kuznetsov.png

Varyag
USNWC_Varyag02.jpg
 
Going on the state of the rest of the Russian navy and the ocean going tugs they take everywhere to drag whichever ship is the first to break down back home again, I assume it looks very shiny for a couple of years before rapidly becoming a mobile radiation hazard and either slowly rusting to death in the furthest anchorage from civilisation that the Russians own or spending her days wandering international waters while every single port authority on the globe tells them to eff off until she eventually explodes.
 
Going on the state of the rest of the Russian navy and the ocean going tugs they take everywhere to drag whichever ship is the first to break down back home again, I assume it looks very shiny for a couple of years before rapidly becoming a mobile radiation hazard and either slowly rusting to death in the furthest anchorage from civilisation that the Russians own or spending her days wandering international waters while every single port authority on the globe tells them to eff off until she eventually explodes.

In all actuality, the Ulyanovsk would more than likely be completed in Ukraine because Russia didn't even have the facilities to build large warships until recently in OTL. In regards to being a radiation hazard, even the Russians had adequate shielding on their naval nuclear reactors, so it wouldn't be a radiation hazard.
 
I suspect this requires the Soviet Union to survive, since a big enough economy to complete and operate this ship needs a better economy and a better economy would strengthen the forces holding the union together.

Personally, I think a carrier like this would be a net drain for the Soviets. It would allow them to intervene in overseas conflicts better, but that is a double edged sword. I don't think it would really strengthen their ability to look after their key interests any.

fasquardon
 
I have a soft spot for these russian/soviet giants. Riga (Varyag), was of course a lot more advanced in construction compared to Ulyanovsk (which was not even launched yet iirc) so she is more likely to be completed in an ATL. Like said above, unfortunately this requires a lot of things going differently, either no USSR dissolution, or one in which someone who is actually caring for maintaining Russia's world position is in charge (so no drunkard traitorous Yeltsin), and indeed one in which Ukraine is not allowed to fall into the US sphere of influence (so no "colour revolutions" and all that we have seen and see).

If still having to have the USSR dissolution (but still needing a different flow of events from there on), then Ulyanovsk will take a long time to finish especially with Riga first in line to be finished, but probably there will be renewed work on it in the 2000s so it should be comissioned by the ATL now.

As for the usefulness of these ships, well they will be just as useful for Russia as for other world naval powers that operate such ships. They will certainly be an awesome and intimidating sight. India might still buy Vikramaditya as the russians will probably still discard the Kievs, although for an even more awesome russian carrier fleet they could convert the two newest Kievs to ski-jump CVs too (or alternatively, to LHD/LHAs as a stopgap to building the Khersons), but probably this is too much to ask (and at any rate, financially it would still be ahead of actually finishing CVN Ulyanovsk).

In this TL though probably China does not get Riga (Varyag), so that is a step back for them, though perhaps they might buy a Kiev and convert that to a ski-jump carrier, but they might need smaller carrier fighters compared to J-15 (either MiG-29K or a new local design).

So yes, one can have Riga finished in the nineties and serving alongside Tbilisi, and then Ulyanovsk in the 2000-2010s, plus say one or two Kievs converted to LHD which could be followed by a modern iteration of Kherson built in Russia and/or Ukraine replacing the current Mistral debacle. If the ATL situation is more or less similar with other types of russian ships too (cruisers, subs, destroyers/frigates etc.) then they still have the second most powerful navy in the world. But again, quite a few things need to be different to get to that.
 
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I suspect this requires the Soviet Union to survive, since a big enough economy to complete and operate this ship needs a better economy and a better economy would strengthen the forces holding the union together.

Personally, I think a carrier like this would be a net drain for the Soviets. It would allow them to intervene in overseas conflicts better, but that is a double edged sword. I don't think it would really strengthen their ability to look after their key interests any.

fasquardon

Agree.

Having this behemoth requires the USSR reforming its economy in the 1960s so as for it to be manageable in the country's budget.
 
1981 March: The Soviet Navy orders the heavy aviation cruiser RIGA.

1982 April: RIGA is laid down in Shipyard 444 in Ukraine.

1983: Construction of an as yet unnamed sister ship to RIGA is ordered.

1985 December: The newly renamed heavy aviation cruiser LEONID BREZHNEV is launched. The name Riga is passed on to her sister which is laid down in the now vacant slipway the same month.

1986 June: The Nuclear powered supercarrier ULYANOVSK is ordered.

1988 November: ULYANOVSK is laid down in Shipyard 444.
December: Riga is launched.

1989: The LEONID BREZHNEV begins sea trials. Due to the rise of nationalism throughout the Soviet Union many ships are renamed after capital cities.
The LEONID BREZHNEV is once again renamed. She is now known as the TBILISI.

1990: October: TBILISI is renamed again. she is now known as the ADMIRAL KUZNETSOV.
December: KUZNETSOV is commissioned into the Soviet Navy. Riga and Ulyanovsk remain in shipyard 444 continuing fitting out and construction.

1991 January: Due to lack of funds and the ongoing political situation within the Soviet union work on the RIGA and ULYANOVSK is suspended indefinitely. The ships are 20% and 70% complete.
December: ADMIRAL KUZNETSOV sails to here new home in Murmansk where she joins the Northern Fleet.

December 1991: The USSR is dissolved. immediately questions arise over ownership of the ships still in the shipyard in the newly independent Ukraine.
For the time being the Soviet Navy still exists and so retains ownership of the ships as part of the various agreements regarding the Black Sea Fleet.

1992: In order to retain ownership of the RIGA the decision is made to move the partially completed hull to Arkhangelsk where she can finish here fitting out. This decision is made to put her out of reach of Ukraine who may try and claim her as their own. There is some debate over the financial cost of completing the ship. indeed some within the Kremlin and newly created Russian Navy argue that it would be better to sell the ship to a third party (China unofficially expresses an interest in such a deal) rather than spend money they don't have on completing the ship. in the meantime RIGA is renamed VARYAG.

1993: Construction of the ULYANOVSK is resumed in order to prevent her from being broken up on the slipway by her builders, now known as the Black Sea Shipyard. Construction continues at a slow pace.

1995: VARYAG begins sea trials. Training and work up are greatly hindered by a lack of SU-33 FLANKER's to actually fly from her deck. It is becoming increasingly clear to western observers that Russia will struggle to put together 2 full carrier airgroups without greater funding. something that will be a long time coming if ever.

1997: ULYANOVSK is finally launched. Fitting out proceeds for a short time until the workers are diverted to other projects for clients who pay their bills. Something the Russian Navy is struggling to do. The ship is virtually laid up.

1998: Despite here sea trials and workup taking longer than expected the VARYAG finally commissions and sets sail for here new home in Vladivostok where she will become the flagship of the Pacific Fleet.
In an embarrassing turn of events the ships is damaged by ice while transiting the north coast of Russia. what should have been a proud moment for the Russian navy turns into a humiliation as the ship limps into port and straight into a floating drydock. She becomes a permanent fixture there as funds to fix her are unavailable.

2000: The Kursk disaster visibly demonstrates the dire straits that the Russian Navy is in. nThis and the still fresh memories of the first chechnian war cause newly elected president Putin decides that enough is enough and that everything must be done to save Russia's pride, particularly in its armed forces. More money is pumped into prestige projects throughout Russia.
Work on the ULYANOVSK is resumed though the ship has been much delayed.

2001: Repair work on VARYAG is completed and the ship is able to put to sea for the first time in 3 years.

2002: VARYAG makes here first deployment into the pacific. During a visit to Shanghai the Peoples Liberation Army Navy are reportedly very impressed with the ship and begin to look at the benefits of fixed wing naval aviation.

2003: ULYANOVSK sails for sea trials. The extra SU-33's that were ordered in 2001 start to arrive. It is now looking increasingly likely that the Russian Navy will be able to provide the ship with an air group without depriving the other carriers of theirs.

2004: ULYANOVSK finally commissions into the Russian Navy and sails to join the Northern Fleet. On the way she stops in St Petersburg where it becomes clear how much the ship will become a source of intense national pride. The ship is shadowed by NATO aircraft and submarines throughout her voyage.
 
Quite plausible TL. Something to ponder though is what could Ulyanovsk be named, will it retain it's USSR name or be given a name more in tone with the times, maybe Admiral something? Actually come to think of it, how about it being called Admiral Gorshkov, and we can have the Kiev class carrier with that name sold to India like in OTL, or have it's name changed to something more "appropriate" for the LHD role i suggested.

Since this TL still has some serious economic difficulties for Russia, presumably Ulyanovsk/Admiral Korshkov's air wing could have a squadron of MiG-29K, one of Su-27K (simply to give a lifeline to MiG too, not to mention helping with exports), Ka-27 helicopters and several Ka-31 AEW helicopters. But with the economic stablilization in the 2000s perhaps we can have the Yak-44 AEW programe restarted, both for VMF and for possible export to India and/or China. Also in this TL Russia would have catapult and arresting gear building capabilities that would also be eagerly sought after by China for their new built carriers and India for their IAC-2 and even IAC-1 carriers maybe, so more money there for Russia.

Speaking of China, grudgingly we can have the Varyag still sold to China in the 2000s once the Ulyanovsk/Admiral Gorshkov comes online, but in perfectly workable condition only needing alterations at Dalian to it's weapons and sensors according to chinese requirements, and they could also buy say a squadron of modernized Su-27K for it, pending series production of their J-15. If the chinese have the money this could also get a few good billions for Russia.

Btw, would be also "cool" if say most of the Kirovs and Slavas and lesser ships are maintained in good working order to form a couple of VMF carrier and/or LHD task forces.
 
Quite plausible TL. Something to ponder though is what could Ulyanovsk be named, will it retain it's USSR name or be given a name more in tone with the times, maybe Admiral something? .

Speaking of China, grudgingly we can have the Varyag still sold to China in the 2000s once the Ulyanovsk/Admiral Gorshkov comes online, but in perfectly workable condition only needing alterations at Dalian to it's weapons and sensors according to chinese requirements, and they could also buy say a squadron of modernized Su-27K for it, pending series production of their J-15. If the chinese have the money this could also get a few good billions for Russia.

Btw, would be also "cool" if say most of the Kirovs and Slavas and lesser ships are maintained in good working order to form a couple of VMF carrier and/or LHD task forces.

I think the most likely name would be Peter the Great. The Kirov class cruiser that bears that name IOTL would be assigned a different name. It would be cool to see her named Admiral Kolchak after the Imperial Russian Navy admiral.

Selling Varyag to China would probably be more difficult in this TL. IOTL Varyag was purchased by a front company as a hulk to be turned into a floating hotel/casino. A fully operational aircraft carrier being sold would cause a major diplomatic stir.

It would be cool to see all the Kirov's and Slava's in service but if your going to operate 2-3 carrier battlegroups on a tight budget then something will have to give.

It would however be really cool to see Ukraine finish and then operate the Slava class cruiser Ukrayina. It would probably make 2014 much more interesting.
 

Archibald

Banned
or one in which someone who is actually caring for maintaining Russia's world position is in charge (so no drunkard traitorous Yeltsin)
I think Nikolai Ryzkhov could do it. He was much saner than Yeltsin,probably a much better leader overall.
Have an earlier conservative coup (1988 instead of August 1991) with Yeltsin shot by a sniper while standing on a tank. Then Ryzhkov win the Russian election of June 1991. He become de facto Russian leader after the fall of USSR in 1991.
 
I think the most likely name would be Peter the Great. The Kirov class cruiser that bears that name IOTL would be assigned a different name. It would be cool to see her named Admiral Kolchak after the Imperial Russian Navy admiral.

Selling Varyag to China would probably be more difficult in this TL. IOTL Varyag was purchased by a front company as a hulk to be turned into a floating hotel/casino. A fully operational aircraft carrier being sold would cause a major diplomatic stir.

It would be cool to see all the Kirov's and Slava's in service but if your going to operate 2-3 carrier battlegroups on a tight budget then something will have to give.

It would however be really cool to see Ukraine finish and then operate the Slava class cruiser Ukrayina. It would probably make 2014 much more interesting.

Regarding Varyag, imo what it would make it more difficult to sell it to China is that as both it and Ulyanovsk are finished then russian economic condition must be somewhat better which reduces the incentive to sell. On the other hand, being that Varyag will serve in the Pacific, if they still sell it then Varyag could just simply sail to China, a stone's throw away. Sure, the americans will not like it, but tough.

As to the Kirovs and Slavas, well if they still cancel the ships that were OTL cancelled we have four of each, but like i mentioned previously to get the carriers finished as well as the cruisers you need an Ukraine that is a lot closer to Russia so no "colour revolutions" and "maidans" and/or a surviving USSR that while it still had to withdraw from Eastern Europe it's territorial integrity is not affected (whether you have a looser union or not that's another matter).
 
I think Nikolai Ryzkhov could do it. He was much saner than Yeltsin,probably a much better leader overall.
Have an earlier conservative coup (1988 instead of August 1991) with Yeltsin shot by a sniper while standing on a tank. Then Ryzhkov win the Russian election of June 1991. He become de facto Russian leader after the fall of USSR in 1991.

Interesting read about the man, anyone who can avoid that catastrophic meltdown is good enough. Also he has ukrainian origins so while just speculation, perhaps some biased preferential treatment to Ukraine might reduce even more the chances of "maidans" and ex-US citizens (!) being put in charge of the ukrainian "government" and such things- iirc have read somewhere that as much as 30% of USSR's military industry was in Ukraine. They could get a lot of money from contracts with Russia (even if production would be much reduced compared to soviet times, finish the Varyag and Ulyanovsk alone will bring large revenues to Ukraine).
 
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