WI: Southern Slaves "Free themselves?"

Is it possible for there to be an ACW sceanario where rather then the slave owners, it's the slaves themselves who take up arms against the federal government following some kind of slave revolution? What would be the best way for this to happen? What would be the long term outcome?
 
I'm pretty sure this was what John Brown was trying to do, and it didn't work for him. The main problem is that the slaves have no way of communicating and organizing something this big. Sooner or later, someone is going to let slip the plans, and the planters are going to come down like a ton of bricks.
 
Is it possible for there to be an ACW sceanario where rather then the slave owners, it's the slaves themselves who take up arms against the federal government following some kind of slave revolution? What would be the best way for this to happen? What would be the long term outcome?

I also wonder how citizens of the northern states would react if John Brown's raid was sucessful enough that it did lead to major parts of the south being taken over by armed blacks in open revolt against their southern masters and Federal troops being sent to put it down.
 
I've thought about this -- how slavery could be abolished through insurrectionary means.

I think it would definitely have to be more than a slave rebellion. The inclusion of Northern abolitionists would be helpful, if not a requirement, even if you butterfly away the Nat Turner rebellion and the laws against education of slaves that followed. Slaves were, well...slaves.

John Brown's raid strikes me as unlikely to succeed. However, if you have an even greater conspiracy, it could be successful. But then you'd have not only the South descending on the rebels, but the North as well -- most of the North was not abolitionist, but merely opposed to slavery. Moderates of the Lincoln variety would probably call for the heads of the rebellion's leaders. After all, the political trend set by the likes of Clay and Webster had been preserving the Union at the cost of millions in bondage.

Perhaps a second front could be opened up in New England. Maybe a coup in Massachusetts or something.
 
Between Haiti and Nat Turner, the slave-owners were very, very, very aware of this possibility. (In other words, they were prepared and not about to be taken by surprise.)

If I recall correctly, John Brown had some admirers up north, much to the anger of those down south. Fans of John Brown might not be too particular about how slave-owners were taken down, I bet.
 
Perhaps a massive fleeing of slaves south into Florida during the seminole wars?

Educated freemen could have stocked up arms and went to Florida to prepare for the Revolution and made contact with Haitians for assistance in supplies?

How much would it have taken for such a revolt to take Florida and have a massive exodus south by slaves who killed their masters.


Then Haitian commanders arrive in Florida and train them to form a proper army?
 
Perhaps a massive fleeing of slaves south into Florida during the seminole wars?

Educated freemen could have stocked up arms and went to Florida to prepare for the Revolution and made contact with Haitians for assistance in supplies?

How much would it have taken for such a revolt to take Florida and have a massive exodus south by slaves who killed their masters.


Then Haitian commanders arrive in Florida and train them to form a proper army?


Reaction 1: I'd pay to see that :D

Reaction 2: As inspiring as that would be, the military effort turned against the Seminole/Slave-Revolt/Haitian coalition would be a brutal and overwhelming thing. That would be an ugly war, and, the American government forces would prevail after a lot of blood in the grass.
 
Perhaps a massive fleeing of slaves south into Florida during the seminole wars?

Educated freemen could have stocked up arms and went to Florida to prepare for the Revolution and made contact with Haitians for assistance in supplies?

How much would it have taken for such a revolt to take Florida and have a massive exodus south by slaves who killed their masters.


Then Haitian commanders arrive in Florida and train them to form a proper army?

I think that in order to succeed it would also require another country helping the slaves (not likely, no major powers have enough beef with America to risk inspiring slave revolts in their own countries), some sort disease or other catastrophe that can significantly weaken America but somehow not weaken the slaves(any ideas?), a government that is willing to screw the Southern half of their nation(probably not) or a civil war (probably not enough abolitionists willing to take up arms against the government). Their best chance probably is that if the war is bloody/destructive enough the government might emancipate them to calm them down but give the no property so that they basically work as wage-slaves (this happened in Haiti for a few years).
 
I think that in order to succeed it would also require another country helping the slaves (not likely, no major powers have enough beef with America to risk inspiring slave revolts in their own countries), some sort disease or other catastrophe that can significantly weaken America but somehow not weaken the slaves(any ideas?).


How was Mexico looking at this time?

Wasn't the British still hostile at this time and the war of 1812 coming?

If the conflict goes on long enough they could be concurrent.


Also couldn't this be used by the northern abolitionist to say "look what the south has pushed them to! we can't have this breaking the country in a few years we have a continent to unite!"

Was Gran Columbia around yet?

I am looking for supporting states but they are hard to find.

Could Morocco open up trade with them and sell ships to the black freemen prewar they used to transport the arms from the east coast down to Florida and from Orleans to Florida?

Then couldn't New Orleans have supporting ships leave for Florida with native american and black freedmen brought in to be troops?

Cuban rebel groups could be supporters if they exist at this time?
 
I imagine that northerners would strongly object to a federal draft to put down such a slave revolt, even more so if they're abolitionists already. "Why should I die just so some lazy sadist southerner can have victims to beat?"
 
How was Mexico looking at this time?

Wasn't the British still hostile at this time and the war of 1812 coming?

If the conflict goes on long enough they could be concurrent.


Also couldn't this be used by the northern abolitionist to say "look what the south has pushed them to! we can't have this breaking the country in a few years we have a continent to unite!"

Was Gran Columbia around yet?

I am looking for supporting states but they are hard to find.

Could Morocco open up trade with them and sell ships to the black freemen prewar they used to transport the arms from the east coast down to Florida and from Orleans to Florida?

Then couldn't New Orleans have supporting ships leave for Florida with native american and black freedmen brought in to be troops?

Cuban rebel groups could be supporters if they exist at this time?
Britain probably wouldn't have supported the revolt, they didn't help Haiti even though they were at war with France and they had troops at Jamaica that could assist the slaves. Mexico is a possibility, they didn't have massive slave populations to worry about.
 
Perhaps a massive fleeing of slaves south into Florida during the seminole wars?

Educated freemen could have stocked up arms and went to Florida to prepare for the Revolution and made contact with Haitians for assistance in supplies?

How much would it have taken for such a revolt to take Florida and have a massive exodus south by slaves who killed their masters.


Then Haitian commanders arrive in Florida and train them to form a proper army?

You don't want to give Andrew Jackson a reason to go on a mass killing spree in Florida...he didn't even need a reason to do what he already did there in OTL...
 
I imagine that northerners would strongly object to a federal draft to put down such a slave revolt, even more so if they're abolitionists already. "Why should I die just so some lazy sadist southerner can have victims to beat?"

...which could lead to mutinies to the side of the slaves. But a draft would probably require a BIG slave revolt, with arms and such supplied by Northern abolitionists.
 
...which could lead to mutinies to the side of the slaves. But a draft would probably require a BIG slave revolt, with arms and such supplied by Northern abolitionists.

I wonder about that. If it's essentially a replay of the Haitian Revolution, with all the attendant slaughter, pillaging, rape and other assorted outrages, which was one of the big things that scared the hell out of the Southern States, I don't know. Did even the most Radical Republicans of the Civil War favor that kind of violence against the South at-large?
 
Well i was thinking it would be rather large with tens of thousands of slaves fleeing to Florida to join the rebellion.

On top of haitian volunteers. It will be funny when the cavalry arrive to crush the Slave army and their cries of Freedom, Liberty, justice, and the true american way. Lol

I doubt there will be many slaves raping and slaughtering their masters as to get away most will have to sneak away just to not get gunned down. Some plantations will get overrun and the slaves will take arms then flee south raiding planations as they go recruiting more and more but such groups will move slow and be easily found. So few of those groups would make it to the south.

Georgia OTOH is totally screwed! Its too close to the area of conflict and the slaves can reach Florida lines in a few weeks even in large groups so the over run planation is a good plan. Also the Florida rebels can raid Georgian planations and hit the coast.
 
If the conflict can go on into the war of 1812 time then the british fight the americans anyway and pull pressure off the Rebellion.

THen the Americans will feel the heat of "What if the slaves join the british or let them land troops in Florida?"

They would likely sue for peace in the end to keep the british out.

Then its time for the demands which can go four ways:

1) The Americans offer to send them all back to Africa or to Haiti

2) The Slaves demand independence of Florida as their own country

3) The Americans offer to make a Black State of the Union for only freedmen.

4) The Blacks demand emancipation of all slaves or atleast blacks

Which of these are likely to work out?
 
Perhaps a massive fleeing of slaves south into Florida during the seminole wars?

Educated freemen could have stocked up arms and went to Florida to prepare for the Revolution and made contact with Haitians for assistance in supplies?

How much would it have taken for such a revolt to take Florida and have a massive exodus south by slaves who killed their masters.


Then Haitian commanders arrive in Florida and train them to form a proper army?

This would be awesome but as modelcitizen said, it wouldn't end well. Though it would be something epic to have as a TL or the very least a story about the war itself.

I think that in order to succeed it would also require another country helping the slaves (not likely, no major powers have enough beef with America to risk inspiring slave revolts in their own countries), some sort disease or other catastrophe that can significantly weaken America but somehow not weaken the slaves(any ideas?), a government that is willing to screw the Southern half of their nation(probably not) or a civil war (probably not enough abolitionists willing to take up arms against the government). Their best chance probably is that if the war is bloody/destructive enough the government might emancipate them to calm them down but give the no property so that they basically work as wage-slaves (this happened in Haiti for a few years).

I was going for something like this is in my TL. Though the plague hits right at the beginning of the ARW, and thus you have not only rebel slaves, but a civil war where a large contingent of Loyalists are opposed the plantation class and take advantage of the chaos. There's lots of other factors that get thrown in the mix that would take too long to explain, but in the end slavery is over as well as any recognizable Southern culture from OTL perspective. I'll just say it will look more like southern Louisiana or Brazil.
 
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