Jesus Christ, you want me to respond to you in the way you allege I've been responding to you so far, then good. Here: just own the lame arguments you've made here, Norton.
Own the fact that you are conflating real history with vague Turtledove fantasy writing (even as you actually can't write anything that resembles original fiction here.)
Don't write the same "no, I know what you are but what am I?" exculpatory BS in a dozen consecutive run-on sentences.
You're in over your head with the history of the African American community and the Civil Rights movement here, and yet you want people to respond to your your vague speculations seriously. As lousy as it is, just admit it.
What lame arguments? What I've said you've been doing, you have been doing. Or do you mean what I've been positing in the discussion? In that latter instance, I do not believe them to be "lame arguments". I think its a fascinating idea. If there were any part of the black community to do it, it would be the radicals and militants. It's not entirely out of bounds given certain ideas within the black community (not to say everyone or a majority were supportive of them, as I assume you will conflate my mentioning of them as existing in the black community as saying that the black community by any majority or unity followed them) about separation and/or black community independence, as well as an element of political power.
I'm not conflating real history with Turtledove fantasy writing (I'd like to add, if I may be as brash as yourself, that you should stop using Turtledove as a short hand term because I've never seen anyone else use it in the shorthand style you are attempting to popularize and have used several times throughout your replies lately; it's more confusing than anything). While this is not the likeliest scenario, which I have said multiple times, I do not believe it is out of bounds of something possible in some reality. Were it to be Turtledove Fantasty writing, as you term it, then the content of the idea as well as the lead up and outcome would be false to what would occur were such a thing to occur. Not the idea in and of itself. Ideas in an of themselves in Alternate History, if they are not ASB, are not Turtlove fantasy writing (ASB meaning not happening due to a person not having that as what they would do or just plain old magical intervention; not just something that's not the likeliest to happen, and I hate when people adopt it to label scenarios which are not the likeliest to occur).
I haven't written "I know you are but what am I" response, and frankly you are the one acting quite childish with your bombastic attitude. Criticizing my very writing style by calling it "a dozen consecutive run-on sentences" further highlights this.
And I freely admit I may know less about the African American community and Civil Rights movement than you. I said previous that if you do know more, I consider that a plus to the discussion as you could contribute greatly. I don't think, however, that gives you any right to lambast a speculative discussion which is not wrongly characterizing anything really. As I've state many times, this doesn't involve the mainstream Civil Rights movement, save for where said area of the movement would react to this, and that reaction would be negative, critical of it as divisive and wrong headed and giving antagonists to the movement fodder and the white community bad ideas and possibly alienating them.
And what of vague speculations? Of course I do not know where it would start or the details of it, if that's what you mean. I believe that is why many threads are made. You have an interesting idea based on some seed (the seed here being the militant and radical segment of the black community which arose in the late 60s and into the 70s): how could it occur, what if it occurred, and what would the outcomes be? I want to hear other's ideas and other's speculations, arrive perhaps on some consensus of the likeliest case or cases, and so on. That's what discussion is.
I'm not criticising anyone who's making a serious attempt to write fiction here.
Because Norton is not that person.
He's asking people to either validate his vague, ahistorical ideas, or else he appears to want someone to go and write a 'US Black Separatist' TL for him.
Seriously, we desperately need a civil rights history expert like former member AmIndHistAuthor to come and knock some poorly informed white heads together.
You're being silly. I'm not writing fiction, no. But I'm positing a concept which is no more invalid than any of those other concepts. You're also confusing my leaving a concept open for discussion to try to find likely specifics as ignorant vagueness, and either my ideas as ahistorical when they are not, or the scenario as ahistorical. The scenario is, again, not the likeliest as I freely admit, but what does that really matter? Neither is President Disney or Ayn Rand's filibuster. It is an interesting concept, which does not involve anything of magic to lead to it, simply certain events and circumstances.
When you say I want someone else to go off and write this as a timeline, you are being especially silly here. It's a discussion. It's not asking anyone to write a story. What it is asking, in that context, would be the basic ideas of a story: places it could occur, what would happen, people who could be involved, reactions and actions, reprecussions and so on.
Overall, I'm asking you to stop. To follow up that initial asking you to stop, I ask you to not act like I'm asking you to stop to avoid criticism because I'll take valid criticism of anything. You are not leveling valid criticism. You are being bombastic and just wrongheaded.
EDIT: I'm now loathe to continue with contributing anything to this thread, seeing as it appears
I'm responsible for helping the OPer actually flesh out his ideas: "It would take place with the militants and radicals (as they're the only ones who would do so), who came into existence as anything by the late 60s and into the 70s, placing this scenario past 1968 at minimum."
That's all Norton reacting to/poaching from my straight contributions I wrote upthread, and on the previous Black Violence thread.
I won't flame here, and I won't give the OP any more ideas on how to build up this disturbing, racially tone-deaf 'What If' of his.
So, yeah, that's about it from me. Enjoy, honkies.
No. You didn't help flesh out
anything. That was something I already had in my head, and which was part of my thinking when I made this thread. Again, you misunderstand and you do not listen. You assume. And you know what they say about when you assume, although you are simply acting like a pain in mine.
You seem to also think, which I did not mention before, that I am a bigot. I've been getting that vibe, and it disgusts me that you think so. I dislike it when people assume that something is supposed to be something the person would actually like or does like when it is the focus of a narrative. Such a scenario as this would be disturbing. My own thoughts on it, which I did not manage to really get out in a manner I would have liked due to your oddly irate nature throughout all this, is that it would be a mess. Were it to be successful or not, it would result in confrontation, which could take varying degrees and turn into an all out "Bleeding Mississippi" (or wherever it may be), it would be bad public relations for the mainstream Civil Rights movement, and could be devastating enough to seriously prove a problem to it; the white community is understanding of a black community asking for equality and acting peacefully, but it will be totally alienated by this action, and this action could taint the view and reaction to the mainstream Civil Rights movement just as the militancy of the Counterculture in the 60s turned off people in mainstream America who were even sympathetic to what the Hippies and all believed. If it were successful in getting settled, I think zoomar is right in saying that it'd lead to a white flight. Depending on the success of a "filibuster", I think you'd either end up with a state which is heavily divided with a very self determined and self sufficient black community which is likely as seperated as it can be from the white community and where those African Americans play a large role in state government due to their numbers, or perhaps a state where the population becomes majority black due to that movement in and white flight out, and thus a local culture and governance based on the filibusterers and their ideas, given that those people in the state will have been their children. Or, if it fails, you'll have many people who didn't end up doing anything in the end (except maybe ruin many things for the mainstream Civil Rights community), wandering around and still living there perhaps with many interesting stories to tell of the experiment, at best living in communities around the state and within cities which are perhaps of significant size for what they are but nothing more than a minority.