WI Somebody else in charge of German A-bomb project.

What if somebody else was in charge of the Atomic bomb program. We all know Heisenberg's calculations were a mess and that he didn't bother to have them checked. He was also a shitty administrator. Lets say somebody more competent is in charge. How long would it take the nazi's to get an A-bomb assuming they get enough time (in other words 'if they win').
 
What if somebody else was in charge of the Atomic bomb program. We all know Heisenberg's calculations were a mess and that he didn't bother to have them checked. He was also a shitty administrator. Lets say somebody more competent is in charge. How long would it take the nazi's to get an A-bomb assuming they get enough time (in other words 'if they win').

Can they get a priority ahead of the Elektromag device that will use magnetic fields to shut down all electric power in a target nation? (See Heather Pringle's The Master Plan for this little beauty.)
 
Kurt Deibner is the obvious candidate to lead the German project in the absence of Heisenburg IMO.

Trouble is Heisenberg was by far the most respected nuclear scientist Germany had. When he said a nuclear weapon couldn't be built fast enough to affect the war, that had enormous weight and the budget/priority of the project dropped to very low.

BTW his calculations weren't a mess. Heisenberg was a bona fide genius and one of the preeminent nuclear physicists of the 20th century. As I understand it, he came up with a very elegant solution to the problem of calculating the critical mass, based on the assumption that the chain reaction must complete before the first neutron leaves the critical mass. The solution was correct, the trouble was, the assumption was wrong.

You also still have all the other problems that putative Nazi bomb projects have:

  • The lack of Heavy Water to act as a moderator in a reactor.
  • The failure to recognise that very pure graphite can replace Heavy Water.
  • The general lack/competition for resources.
  • The Allied espionage/bombing/sabotage campaign against the German nuclear programme.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but you need some major PoDs not just a theoretical breakthrough on the calculation of the critical mass. The British correctly determined the critical mass in 1940 and it still took the combined might of the British the Canadians and (not least) the Americans five years to get a bomb.
 
Kurt Deibner is the obvious candidate to lead the German project in the absence of Heisenburg IMO.
Trouble is Heisenberg was by far the most respected nuclear scientist Germany had. When he said a nuclear weapon couldn't be built fast enough to affect the war, that had enormous weight and the budget/priority of the project dropped to very low.
BTW his calculations weren't a mess. Heisenberg was a bona fide genius and one of the preeminent nuclear physicists of the 20th century. As I understand it, he came up with a very elegant solution to the problem of calculating the critical mass, based on the assumption that the chain reaction must complete before the first neutron leaves the critical mass. The solution was correct, the trouble was, the assumption was wrong.
You also still have all the other problems that putative Nazi bomb projects have:

  • The lack of Heavy Water to act as a moderator in a reactor.
  • The failure to recognise that very pure graphite can replace Heavy Water.
  • The general lack/competition for resources.
  • The Allied espionage/bombing/sabotage campaign against the German nuclear programme.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but you need some major PoDs not just a theoretical breakthrough on the calculation of the critical mass. The British correctly determined the critical mass in 1940 and it still took the combined might of the British the Canadians and (not least) the Americans five years to get a bomb.

Is it possible that Heisenberg looked at the people who were running Germany's government and deliberately fudged his figures?
I have read that Einstein had serious qualms about determining the possibility of a nuclear weapon but overcame them to give the Allies a weapon to beat the Nazis.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Is it possible that Heisenberg looked at the people who were running Germany's government and deliberately fudged his figures?

Yes, it is entirely possible that this is what happened. An in-depth and exhaustive investigative study of this idea ("Heisenberg's War" by Thomas Powers) explores this idea and the author concluded that, indeed, the German bomb project never got going because Heisenberg didn't want it to.
 
Yes, it is entirely possible that this is what happened. An in-depth and exhaustive investigative study of this idea ("Heisenberg's War" by Thomas Powers) explores this idea and the author concluded that, indeed, the German bomb project never got going because Heisenberg didn't want it to.

I've also heard that the Nazi bomb project was sabotaged by the fact that Hitler forbade German physicists from usin E=MC2.
 
Is it possible that Heisenberg looked at the people who were running Germany's government and deliberately fudged his figures?
It is possible. After the war he claimed as much. However, some people think he was trying to cover up his failure and give himself anti-nazi credentials.

I have read that Einstein had serious qualms about determining the possibility of a nuclear weapon but overcame them to give the Allies a weapon to beat the Nazis.
Einstein had very little to do with it. His only contribution was to put his name to the Einstein-Szillard letter, which was not as instrumental in the Allied bomb project as is commonly believed and BTW miscalculated the critical mass in the same way Heisenberg did. Many of the scientists involved in the Manhattan Project had serious qualms. Many of them signed a letter trying to persuade the government to demonstrate the bomb rather than use it for example.
Yes, it is entirely possible that this is what happened. An in-depth and exhaustive investigative study of this idea ("Heisenberg's War" by Thomas Powers) explores this idea and the author concluded that, indeed, the German bomb project never got going because Heisenberg didn't want it to.
Other authors have concluded the opposite. I doubt we'll ever really be sure.
I've also heard that the Nazi bomb project was sabotaged by the fact that Hitler forbade German physicists from usin E=MC2.
You are refering to Deutsche Physik which opposed Relativity. But relativity has very little to do with atomic physics. The forced emigration of the European Jewish atomic physicists however was a massive blow to the German project and boost to the Allied one.
 
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Himmler apparently didn't care for Heisenberg, and toyed with throwing in a concentration camp or simply having him purged. It wouldn't be big stretch to have the leading physicist in Germany to have an "unfortunate lab explosion" or just disappear.

I think that the American bomb project could have been completed sooner. And I think that it is possible with a pod in the late 30's for Germany to have at least one bomb by early 1945.

1. Your going to need an engineer like Diebner in charge.
2. Your going to need all the heavy water from Norway from 1940-45, and probably a few chemical factories dedicated to synthesizing it as well, unless a better run bomb project determines pure graphite can be used.
3. You are going to need a secure place, probably underground or in a mountain, with water accessible.
4. Security around the project is going to have to be better, the Allies can know as little possible about the project location or progression.
 
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