WI: Slavs push further West?

What's the source for those Cyrillic maps?

Sorry! You mean the second ( the double ) map showing East, West and South Slavs respectivelly in V-VI and VII-VIIIth c.?

The source is: http://www.google.bg/search?client=...&source=og&sa=N&hl=bg&tab=wi&biw=1024&bih=746 ( google search of "slavs" in "images" )

Branches at 800 AD OTL:

West Slavs:

1.jpg


East Slavs:

ts


notice Bulgar at their back on east ( a possible stronghold if the Krum TL version deploys )

South Slavs:

Macodnian_Sklavinia.png


and Krum's Bulgaria ( ~800 AD OTL ):

802-970.gif


, occupying roughly the southern third of the total slavic territory.

The territorial distro of slavs bears unique geopolitical potential to control Eurasia ( OTL shadow = OTL Russia ), and Krum's Bulgaria possesses the unique geopolitical potential to control the 8th c. OTL Slavic lands...

Do you want to detailize the TL. It is not so much of a bulgaro-wank as it seems.
 
Do you want to detailize the TL. It is not so much of a bulgaro-wank as it seems.

the main them of the TL is the rise of a pagan Frisian kingdom. to create circumstances to do so, I would create a Visigoth victory against Clovis, so he has to divide his "small" kingdom between his 4 sons.
(POD is 507 AD)

I thought about a way to get the slavs into the deepest regions of Germania to stir things up a bit, and to create a interesting blending culture. the main focus therefore will be northern europe and the Frisians and the Slavo-Germanic (or Germano-Slavic....,I dont know) culture

I am still wondering about southern europe, and further east though. I am evenb still oblivious about events further then a rough hundred years from POD. anny information about making things interesting will be well recieved.

(I could still incorperate a "Bulgarian" afterparty:p;). just point me directions;))
 
I've been working on a minor Bulgarwank TL, but timelines that far back preset more challeges than more recent divergences in my opinion.
 
I was actually planning on this happening in my timeline. With the Lombards forced into the Carpathian Basin by the Romans, the Slavs are funneled west all the way to France.
 
I would like to know (for my TL) what the cultural differences where and iff there where cultural comparrisons.
I know plenty about germanic culture and religion, but less about slavic. how can I merge their cultures???
and what would be the greatest difficulty??
 
I would like to know (for my TL) what the cultural differences where and iff there where cultural comparrisons.
I know plenty about germanic culture and religion, but less about slavic. how can I merge their cultures???
and what would be the greatest difficulty??

AFAIK the biggest difficulty is liable to be the language. Germanic and Slavic culture are fairly close together materially, to the point that many of the earlier certainties of 'Germanic' or 'Slavic' items are being called into question today. We assume differences in family structure and government, but the way that western Slav and Germanic peoples were able to share a frontier and rule each other over centuries suggests that these differences were either not that great or not that important. Pagan religions can be incredibly syncretistic, so that is unlikely to be a problem. The fundamentals of the two religiosities - sacrifice, oracle, ritual observance of specific occasions - were similar enough. And the material foundation, mixed cereal agriculture in forested regions, was practically the same. Through much medieval history, Slavic-speaking populations were assimilated into Germanic-speaking ones., and there is no reason to think it wouldn't work the other way around. For all we know, it did in the centuries before written history. Certainly, the large areas east of the Elbe were not entirely empty of Germanic-speaking people whjen the Slavs came in.
 
I've been working on a minor Bulgarwank TL, but timelines that far back preset more challeges than more recent divergences in my opinion.

Interesting. Give a link to your BG-wank TL. pls.

To the author of the theme - excuse me I misunderstood the direction. I'll extract the Krum-BG "solution" of slav-wank into a separate theme.
 
Interesting. Give a link to your BG-wank TL. pls.

To the author of the theme - excuse me I misunderstood the direction. I'll extract the Krum-BG "solution" of slav-wank into a separate theme.

I have not posted anything for it yet, and to be honest, I was just going to make it brief and perhaps post it with a map in the map thread. However, I will link to it when I get it posted:)
 
AFAIK the biggest difficulty is liable to be the language. Germanic and Slavic culture are fairly close together materially, to the point that many of the earlier certainties of 'Germanic' or 'Slavic' items are being called into question today. We assume differences in family structure and government, but the way that western Slav and Germanic peoples were able to share a frontier and rule each other over centuries suggests that these differences were either not that great or not that important. Pagan religions can be incredibly syncretistic, so that is unlikely to be a problem. The fundamentals of the two religiosities - sacrifice, oracle, ritual observance of specific occasions - were similar enough. And the material foundation, mixed cereal agriculture in forested regions, was practically the same. Through much medieval history, Slavic-speaking populations were assimilated into Germanic-speaking ones., and there is no reason to think it wouldn't work the other way around. For all we know, it did in the centuries before written history. Certainly, the large areas east of the Elbe were not entirely empty of Germanic-speaking people whjen the Slavs came in.

wassnt there also a strong belief in werewolves amongst slavic peoples
could this result in ( or be the cause of) particulair rituals??
 
wassnt there also a strong belief in werewolves amongst slavic peoples
could this result in ( or be the cause of) particulair rituals??

It seems the belief in shapeshifters is a fairly common phenomenon, from the (presumably Slavic) cynoscephaloi of the Byzantine Balkans to the man-wolves of Saxo Grammaticus. But given as little as we know about the specifics of either Germanic or Slavic religions, there may well have been differences. They'd still be based off of a similar worldview, though. At least as far as we know, both Slavic and Germanic religion had no centralised priesthood, no scripture, no concept of salvation through faith, and no sense of orthodoxy. Both believed in multiple, anthropomorphic Gods, many supernatural beings, practiced material sacrifice and celebrated seasonal events. They fit.
 
I could certainly work with that;)

iss there annything specific about Slavic warfare
I have heared they where mainly footsoldiers:confused:
 
I could certainly work with that;)

iss there annything specific about Slavic warfare
I have heared they where mainly footsoldiers:confused:

Besides tribal levies there was Druzhyna - semi-professional bodyguard force composed of best warriors/foreign mercenaries, acting as heavy cavalry.
 
I could certainly work with that;)

iss there annything specific about Slavic warfare
I have heared they where mainly footsoldiers:confused:

Not AFAIK. They had levies of free men and retinues of rulers and aristocrats, much like their Germanic neighbours. that is, of course, to the extent that we can reconstruct it at all. Our knowledge for later times and more civilised parts (like Poland, the Kievan Rus or the Balkans) is better than for the early Western Slavs, though.
 
Besides tribal levies there was Druzhyna - semi-professional bodyguard force composed of best warriors/foreign mercenaries, acting as heavy cavalry.

Druzhina itself comes from proto-Germanic for "warband" (common root word for "friend" and "band leader"). The early Slavs and early Germans are really really similar, all in all.
 
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