WI: Slavic-speaking Hungary

In OTL, Bulgarians are descended from the Bulgars, a people of Turkic origins who gradually adopted a South Slavic language, and nowadays consider themselves Slavs.

What if something similar happened in Hungary too around 1000 AD, and nowadays people in Hungary speak a Slavic language that is somewhat like a mixture of Slovak and Serbian?

How would this have effected European history?
 
Last edited:

Albrecht

Banned
Unlike Bulgaria, Pannonia wasn't populated by Slavs prior to the arrival of the Ugric and Avar people, if I am not wrong.

Pannonia and Noricum were populated by Celts, Goths, West Germanic peoples, Romans, Dacians along with Slavic people. So its a wrong analogy to start with.
 

jocay

Banned
Have the already pseudo-Slavicized Pannonian Avars become absorbed into the first Bulgarian Empire which they were in the process of being prior to the arrival of the Magyars.
 
Pannonia was Slavic. At least parts of it, speaking Slovene. (Or Kajkavian Croat). Plus a couple of Latinate pockets in Burgenland, Vesprem and Dunaujvaros and Pecs
 

krieger

Banned
In OTL, Bulgarians are descended from the Bulgars, a people of Turkic origins who gradually adopted a South Slavic language, and nowadays considers themselves Slavs.

What if something similar happened in Hungary too around 1000 AD, and nowadays people in Hungary speak a Slavic language that is somewhat like a mixture of Slovak and Serbian?

How would this have effected European history?

Assuming that political history goes roughly like OTL - Austroslavism can be a viable political ideology ITTL, and Austro-Hungary would be much more stable (If Hungarian speak Slavic, it means that Croatian and Slovakian national consciousness never arise - they're catholic Slavs just like alt-Hungarians). After IWW, there are a chances to form Western Slavic union out of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland (Polish-Hungarian friendship is strong and ITTL Dmowski and Endecja would suport such a union to stop German expansion) instead of OTL Czechoslovakia. It may even have a form of monarchy with either Karl Habsburg (he was quite popular in Poland and there was even a plan IOTL to make him king of Poland) or some Romanov/Windsor (Karel Kramar wanted to create Western Slavic Federation with Romanov in charge IOTL and Windsor is well-connected and could be seen by local politicians as a pawn). On the other hand Yugoslavia would never arise - yugoslavism was propagated by Croat nationalists who felt oppresed by foreign Hungarians. ITTL, Croats and Hungarians are the same nation - with Hungary-Croatia union happening in early Medieval perion and closeness in language, Croats would become a special variation of Hungarians - just like Bavarians are exceptional example of German, but still German nonetheless. In this case, Italy and Serbia would divide Dalmatia and Serbia would take Bosnia. If Italy gains additional land in Dalmatia it might also butterfly Mussolini (but this is not a given) and probably such Western Slavic union could be powerful enough to push Bolsheviks further east and to gain more lands from Germany. It could even lead to division of Russia as a result of RCW - Czech would push for helping Whites, Hungarians would be neutral and Poles would obviously want gains in Eastern Borderlands, but even WSF wouldn't be enough to completely oust Bolsheviks from power. @Jan Olbracht
 
That means Romania can be catholic ittl.
Not necessarily. Pannonia Romance speakers were distinct from Romanians (Romanians are descendants of Romanised population in Thracia and Moesia, that is from the border regions of Serbia and Bulgaria. Pannonians were Romanized inhabitants of western Hungary and Slavonia)
 
Assuming that political history goes roughly like OTL - Austroslavism can be a viable political ideology ITTL, and Austro-Hungary would be much more stable (If Hungarian speak Slavic, it means that Croatian and Slovakian national consciousness never arise - they're catholic Slavs just like alt-Hungarians). After IWW, there are a chances to form Western Slavic union out of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland (Polish-Hungarian friendship is strong and ITTL Dmowski and Endecja would suport such a union to stop German expansion) instead of OTL Czechoslovakia. It may even have a form of monarchy with either Karl Habsburg (he was quite popular in Poland and there was even a plan IOTL to make him king of Poland) or some Romanov/Windsor (Karel Kramar wanted to create Western Slavic Federation with Romanov in charge IOTL and Windsor is well-connected and could be seen by local politicians as a pawn). On the other hand Yugoslavia would never arise - yugoslavism was propagated by Croat nationalists who felt oppresed by foreign Hungarians. ITTL, Croats and Hungarians are the same nation - with Hungary-Croatia union happening in early Medieval perion and closeness in language, Croats would become a special variation of Hungarians - just like Bavarians are exceptional example of German, but still German nonetheless. In this case, Italy and Serbia would divide Dalmatia and Serbia would take Bosnia. If Italy gains additional land in Dalmatia it might also butterfly Mussolini (but this is not a given) and probably such Western Slavic union could be powerful enough to push Bolsheviks further east and to gain more lands from Germany. It could even lead to division of Russia as a result of RCW - Czech would push for helping Whites, Hungarians would be neutral and Poles would obviously want gains in Eastern Borderlands, but even WSF wouldn't be enough to completely oust Bolsheviks from power. @Jan Olbracht
I would not expect Bolsheviks and Austria-Hungary to rise with such distant and radical POD.
 
That's why I said "assuming that political history goes roughly like IOTL"
Which would not happen. Just like it was Wenceslaus II's advantage that he was a Slav in 1300, when he get Polish crown (Archbishop Jakub Świnka and other members of Greater Poland's elite hoped, that unification of two Slavic nations would stop German expansion) such argument ITTL could be used as well in favour of monarchs of Slavo-Hungary.
 

krieger

Banned
Which would not happen. Just like it was Wenceslaus II's advantage that he was a Slav in 1300, when he get Polish crown (Archbishop Jakub Świnka and other members of Greater Poland's elite hoped, that unification of two Slavic nations would stop German expansion) such argument ITTL could be used as well in favour of monarchs of Slavo-Hungary.

I'm not overly conviced about this. Louis d'Anjou will still get the Polish throne, but would be it enough for Poles to accept Sigismund as their overlord? But if he was accepted, Bohemia, Hungary and Poland could merge in one political entity (just like Visegrad in The Silver Knight, but more stable).
 
Top