WI Slavery was abolished without a Civil War, What would be the status of African Americans

[Derek Jackson]

WI no Nat Turner and Virginia decides to abolish slavery in he 1830s?

Kentucky and North Carolina might join them as could Maryland and Delaware.

Eventually, maybe facing competition from Free sources of Cotton in Egypt and also the impact of Boll Wevil other states follow and a 13th Amendment passed by say the 1880s.

Would former slaves and their dependents get rights including political rights. If so when

 

[Wendell]

Eventually, but when I don't know, and it might go state by state to an extent.

 

[sampleswift]

There would be no "Lost Cause", and the absence of the "Lost Cause" would probably reduce anti-black violence?

 

[NotAMyth]

There would be no "Lost Cause", and the absence of the "Lost Cause" would probably reduce anti-black violence?

Not well versed in American history, but I do know that butterflying the immediate raison d'etre of such a significant event doesn't necessarily preclude it from happening altogether.
Like killing Hitler doesn't necessarily prevent WW2, a conflict may still happen but maybe differently.
I am sure banning slavery wouldn't suddenly purge racism in US of A. Even if there is no conflict resentment could still smolder.

 

[sampleswift]

Not well versed in American history, but I do know that butterflying the immediate raison d'etre of such a significant event doesn't necessarily preclude it from happening altogether.
Like killing Hitler doesn't necessarily prevent WW2, a conflict may still happen but maybe differently.
I am sure banning slavery wouldn't suddenly purge racism in US of A. Even if there is no conflict resentment could still smolder.

It wouldn't mean purging of racism, but the Lost Cause movement was heavily involved in anti-black violence and is in fact a legacy of the American Civil War. There would still be smoldering resentment for sure, but the "Lost Cause" as we know it (due to its origin in the American Civil War and the Confederacy) would not exist.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

It wouldn't mean purging of racism, but the Lost Cause movement was heavily involved in anti-black violence and is in fact a legacy of the American Civil War. There would still be smoldering resentment for sure, but the "Lost Cause" as we know it (due to its origin in the American Civil War and the Confederacy) would not exist.

I think the point is that the Lost Cause might be replaced by some other excuse to be racist. You can't assume that it had any tangible impact as a movement, rather than it being used as a justification for shitty behaviour that would have happened anyway under some other excuse.

 

[Galba Otho Vitelius]

Not only "lost cause" not exist, there would be a good deal less racism over all.

An interesting, and I think valid, point of comparison, is Brazil. Brazil abolished slavery later than the USA but did it peacefully, though not without a regime change. Though there has been no attempt made to integrate Afro-Brazilians into the elite, Brazil simply ranks much higher than the USA on things like legal segregation, informal (social) segregation, and people just being obsessed with racial issues.

Granted, the version of slavery in the American south was somewhat nastier than the Brazilian version, but the comparison is a good one. An interesting point is that the abolition of slavery was done peacefully everywhere in the world, with the slaveholders usually compensated, except for the USA and Haiti.

 

[funnyhat]

An interesting point is that the abolition of slavery was done peacefully everywhere in the world, with the slaveholders usually compensated, except for the USA and Haiti.

Is this true? In Spanish America, didn't it occur during the wars of independence?

 

[GregTheWolf144]

There would be way less racism, at least in the South. The South had this terrible thing happened to them, and the people they blamed were the Northerners and the freed slaves on whose behalf the war was fought, and later their descendants, and the descendants of the white southerners blamed the descendants of the slaves. There would have been much less racism, segregation probably would not have happened at all, and things would be generally better. There still would be some racism, though. We know that because there was in the North

 

[Denliner]

I still think racism would still be a huge issue in ITTL America. The planters still remain a powerful political class in the aftermath of slavery and it would be very easy for them to cultivate racial hatred against blacks over competing jobs or wages against whites. Not to mention, scientific racism is still a hugely influential factor in 19th/20th Century American society, so I can't really buy that we would move towards complete racial equality so soon.

However, the lack of the Confederacy and the "Lost Cause" would certainly prove to benefit civil rights activists since white supremacists in the South would lack a national political identity to unite themselves upon. Butterflying the KKK is also a positive since organized domestic terrorism against blacks probably wouldn't become an accepted tactic, although lynchings or riots against blacks might still be an all-too common reality for the average black folk, sadly. We might even be lucky enough for Americans to not accept Jim Crow. Still, with the earlier rise of the Civil Rights movement, and the eventual socioeconomic growth of African Americans, the country would probably be a lot less racist historically than OTL as others have said.

 

[walmart]

Does the 15th amendment still get passed ?

 

[Deleted member 90949]

Not to mention, scientific racism is still a hugely influential factor in 19th/20th Century American society, so I can't really buy that we would move towards complete racial equality so soon.

That's a good point. It is not as though racism was absent in nations that did not practice slavery at all.

 

[Pauh the federalist]

Considering it took until 1995 (technicly 2013 if you read the article) for Mississippi to officially abolish slavery and up until litteraly 2020 retaining confederate battle flag baked into there state flag (old on top, new on bottom). It might take some states ap long time to willfully give up slavery and a even longer time to extend rights like voting and ending segregation

Mississippi ratifies 13th amendment abolishing slavery ... 147 years late

Academics prompt ratification after noticing that 1995 move to accept amendment detailed in Lincoln had not been completed

www.google.com

Mississippi governor signs law for flag without rebel emblem

Mississippi Gov_ Tate Reeves has signed a bill that gives the state a new flag with a magnolia and the phrase, “In God We Trust.”

www.google.com

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

I still think racism would still be a huge issue in ITTL America. Not to mention, scientific racism is still a hugely influential factor in 19th/20th Century American society, so I can't really buy that we would move towards complete racial equality so soon.

There is a huge difference between believing you're racially superior to other races and trying to keep your neighbours as slaves in all but name.

 

[Galba Otho Vitelius]

Is this true? In Spanish America, didn't it occur during the wars of independence?

Actually, no:

A timeline of the abolition of slavery in the Americas

Here’s a map showing when slavery was abolished in North and South America: Surprising, right? Along with Cuba, Brazil, a

kottke.org

Timeline of abolition of slavery and serfdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Some dates are in the 1820s, but its obvious as a general rule there is no relation.

 

[funnyhat]

Actually, no:

A timeline of the abolition of slavery in the Americas

Here’s a map showing when slavery was abolished in North and South America: Surprising, right? Along with Cuba, Brazil, a

kottke.org

Timeline of abolition of slavery and serfdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Some dates are in the 1820s, but its obvious as a general rule there is no relation.

Interesting. I was under the impression that independence meant abolition for nearly all of them.

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

- No Civil War means no Radical Republicans or Reconstruction amendments.
- No Civil War means the Democrats remain politically viable on a national level for the entire last half of the 19th century.
- No Civil War means Southern aristocrats don't lose their wealth and don't have to resort to sharecropping.
- No Reconstruction means no black colleges, hospitals or Freedmen's Bureau.
- No Radical Republicans and a stronger Democratic Party means the US Supreme Court remains packed by Southerners far longer.

Conclusion: Although there will be less reactionary violence towards African Americans, politically and economically African Americans will be oppressed far longer than otl and the Civil Rights Movement will take far longer to develop both on a state and national level. This also will have butterfly affects on other groups as well, such as women, Native Americans, and immigrants.

 

[Anacostia Pol]

No Reconstruction means no black colleges, hospitals or Freedmen's Bureau.

Going beyond just Black colleges, no Civil War means no Morrill Land-Grant Acts at all. Good chunks of the big football colleges are gone or are established much later.

 

[Galba Otho Vitelius]

No Civil War means slavery exists for longer in the USA, and given the extreme conservatism (in the old fashioned sense of "conservatism" meaning resistant to change) of American political culture, that could be for a very long time. The nightmare scenario would be a twentieth century superpower America getting other countries to re-introduce slavery.

However, I'm pretty sure peaceful emancipation works better in the long run for the emancipated slaves and their descendants, despite the arguments above. My reason for thinking that is comparison of the situation in the USA with that of the great number of other countries that abolished slavery peacefully (a point noting is that peaceful emancipation usually includes compensation for the slaveholders). The absence various affirmative action programs is not as big a deal because they are less needed.

 

[jmc247]

Colonization schemes would be executed by the Southern states for a certain percentage of the freed slaves. I would expect them to try to create a new territory out West along with Liberia as an option. My expectation is that most of the South ends up with about 20-30% freedman in their states.