Now...when does another civil war break out? Or can one be avoided?
WI: Sextus Pompey defeats Octavian in Sicily
- Thread starter Archon of Thessaly
- Start date
Now...when does another civil war break out? Or can one be avoided?
I think Sextus will be to busy in the west dealing with the Caeserians to deal with Antony for a good few years, while Antony will have more time to conquer the Parthian s. Whether or not he succeeds in this ( unlikely given his record OTL, though he'll probably conquer Armenia earlier and more permanently then OTL.)
Perhaps peace will last, though the chances are war will break out soon after the conclusion of both men's campaigns-maybe 5-10 years ( so maybe 32-28 BC?)
Sextus. He does not like Antony. He may well have held Sextus in higher esteem having fought ( and beaten) him so he knows his quality.
Hmmm... So Agrippa becomes Sextus's right hand man maybe? Together they would be an excellent pair:Two expert commanders that will leave Antony with his hands full.
Which no leads to, assuming Sextus wins, I imagine Agrippa will be his immediate heir?
It always seems like Agrippa is destined to be someone else's right hand man lol and not the leader himself.
Hmmm... So Agrippa becomes Sextus's right hand man maybe? Together they would be an excellent pair:Two expert commanders that will leave Antony with his hands full.
Which no leads to, assuming Sextus wins, I imagine Agrippa will be his immediate heir?
It always seems like Agrippa is destined to be someone else's right hand man lol and not the leader himself.
Poor Agrippa.....though admittedly, as amazing as a Agrippa/sextus coalition sounds, its more likely that Sextus' subordinates would "deposes of Agrippa"-or simply have him exiled.
If Sextus Pompey manages to capture and kill Octavian when he defeated him in 37 BCE, I'd rather see Anthony postpone his parthian plans and come back to Italy to settle things. With Octavian's death, the caesarian party would be u item again under a single leader.
Agrippa allies with Anthony and Lepidus because Anthony needs good generals in the west before he goes campaigning against parthians. And Agrippa is the perfect ally because, being from an obscure family, there is no risk he become a rival for Anthony or even Lepidus.
You can also imagine Lepidus getting back the spanish provinces.
Agrippa allies with Anthony and Lepidus because Anthony needs good generals in the west before he goes campaigning against parthians. And Agrippa is the perfect ally because, being from an obscure family, there is no risk he become a rival for Anthony or even Lepidus.
You can also imagine Lepidus getting back the spanish provinces.
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But...but...there has to be a way to make it happen
. Maybe Sextus does something along the lines of forbidding the execution of Agrippa if captured?But...but...there has to be a way to make it happen
That is possibly i suppose-Sextus was "pious" and "honest" after all. He may well try to protect Agrippa, though remember he also rejected killing the Triumvirate at Miseum-and that caused his admiral Menas to desert!
Sextus, for all his noble traits, was weaker when dealing with his ruthless, mercenary commanders-he cannot afford to alienate them.
Still, I suppose they could accept Agrippa due to his navel abilities.
Lepidus....no, he was a dead horse. Antony would doubtless exile him to get control of his legions. Sextus will prove a much more co-operative ally then an enemy. Antony would not waste time fighting him.
But...but...there has to be a way to make it happen
Agrippa never risked being captured. He was too good for that.
Only Octavian, who was a coward on the field and such a poor military commander, risked capture.
So in no way can you have Pompey in a situation where he could forgive Agrippa.
Well, let's assume Agrippa is able to successfully pull back and escape. The situation puts Sextus in an advantageous spot, but Agrippa was far from finished, and Sextus would certainly recognize that a war against Agrippa would be far from a sure victory.
Sooooo...after conferring with his fellow commanders, he calls for the three (himself, Antony, and Agrippa) to work out some form of agreement. Whatever agreement that comes out of it-Agrippa is included and allies with Pompey.
Does that sound feasible?
I'm sorry desertfox....but matteo's right. Sextus would have no choice but to crush Agrippa.
Possibly, it does work on paper and could benefit all the parties. Antony secures his rear, Sextus avenges his father and captures Rome, Agrippa has partly avenged his friend with his victory at Mylae. But I doubt any peace between Sextus and Agrippa would last-they both desire control of Italy and the vital sea routs and both have large fleets. Peace could only come if one of them is crushed or killed.
Is there any way Pompey can at least get Agrippa to come to the negotiating table?
Yes of course there is......so he can assassinate him! Sextus isn't stupid enough to let his foes escape twice. Maybe if Antony offers Agrippa sanctuary or offers to mediate a negotiated peace could be possible.
Sorry Archon but I don't see how Pompey could capture Rome and Italy back. He could count on too weak resources for that goal.
The best he could hope was to defend successfully his sicilian lair, and cut the temporary enemy head before having to face the new one. The legions were caesarian, though wanting peace.
And Agrippa would never need protection from Pompey. He was one of the main lieutenants and the best marshalls of the caesarian party who dominated the whole empire except for Sicily and a part of the seas.
The best he could hope was to defend successfully his sicilian lair, and cut the temporary enemy head before having to face the new one. The legions were caesarian, though wanting peace.
And Agrippa would never need protection from Pompey. He was one of the main lieutenants and the best marshalls of the caesarian party who dominated the whole empire except for Sicily and a part of the seas.
Would they really remain loyal without Octavian though? They would be demoralized, not paid, cut off and the people of Rome were pro-republican. Sextus, if he strikes fast, could stage a lighting coup and win over the remaining legions with land grants.
By the way...if Sextus cant capture Rome, and Agrippa is out of the picture, who does get Rome? I cant see sextus or the senate allowing Antony to return!
Which is why Sextus making some sort of deal with Agrippa and Antony makes sense. If he can strike some deal, he can buy the time needed to conjure a large and loyal force. He was popular among the lower classes, and surely the Senate would prefer him to a new man in Agrippa, and almost assuredly they would prefer just about anyone over Antony...
Very well then, i envisage an empire looking like this;
Rome, Gaul, Italy stay loyal to Agrippa.
Sicily, Sardinia, southern greece and (possibly) his old stomping block Spain goes to Sextus.
Antony retains control of eastern provinces while Africa ( if Lepidus is deposed like i imagine) is divided between Sextus ( Pompeian s still popular their) and Antony.
Thus, Antony is in best poition due to his control of grain and largest part of tax revenue, Sextus controls the Mediterranean trade routs and poses risk to all other parties, Agrippa/senate in precarious position but still have large fleet, army and support, thus making them either a liability or asset to one of the other generals.