WI: Sergei Korolev dies in the gulag?

What are the effects on the space race and missile development post-WW2? Does this lead to a less intense space race, since Korolev is not around to push the Soviets to make a satellite?
 

Archibald

Banned
If no Korolev there's still Yangel, Chelomei, and Glushko. Enough for a decent space race with an american Von Braun.

Yangel, Glushko and Chelomei all conflicted with Korolev at various point.

For example Yangel opposed Von Braun in the late 50's over ICBM fuel.
Korolev prefered LOX/kerosene because of better performance. However it took an eternity to fuel the rocket, bad for nuclear alert.
Yangel prefered storable propellants - you launch the ICBM imediately, but propellant are toxic, with bad performance.

Yangel played its connexion with Brejnev, and moved its rocket plant to Ukraine. The R-16 and R-36 ICBMs replaced Korolev R-7 rapidly.

Then Korolev conflicted with Glushko, again on rocket engine and propellants.
Glushko refused to build the N-1 engines, and Korolev had to find someone else - and the N-1 ended with 30 engines, and four failures in a row.

Chelomei was hatred by everyone because he was Krutchev (and son) cherished rocket designer. Once Krutchev out after 1964, Chelomei was out, too. Glushko made sure Chelomei projects were carefully destroyed before completion.

The soviet rocket program was full of brilliant guys, however they all hated each other, and this really destroyed many projects... :mad:
 
I think Korolev was more important than this. All of these other designers were there, true, but only Korolev was the great "Chief Designer", so important that his identity was a state secret. Korolev was not the best scientist out there, but he was the best organizer and visionary in the Soviet space program. Many others surpassed him in technical achievements, but Korolev was able to bring everything together and get things going. Without him, the Soviet space program is much more fragmented than OTL, with many design bureaus and agencies competing for funding. It would also be much more militarized, since Krushchev was much more focused on missiles than satellites and only Korolev's salesmanship allowed a satellite to be launched at all. These would have led to much less early Soviet progress and therefore much less US progress, since there would be no apparent need to spend billions on an experimental program when that money could be better spent on proven bombers to keep the Soviets in line.
 
Wormfood.

Anyone else interested in this? Anyone?
I'm interested. But I sense a serious curbstomping awaiting anyone who makes any errors in "button-count" issues (i.e., "any FOOL knows the US enlisted naval uniform pants uses 13 buttons, NOT 12! Get off this forum and stick to ASB, YOU WORM!:mad:).
 
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Cook

Banned
Anyone else interested in this? Anyone?

There’s a lot of the “Indispensable Man” argument flying around here. I think without Korolev on the scene someone else would have stepped up to the plate. The Space Race was literally that; an international sporting arena for the superpowers to demonstrate their prowess. Without Korolev and Von Braun there would have been others, but the motivation and finances were there.

What’s entertaining is speculation on the direction it would have taken with others in the lead positions. Having Eugen Sanger in charge instead of Von Braun or Korolev’s my favourite, skipping the whole “throw away” missile era and proceeding straight to re-usable space planes.
 
Having Eugen Sanger in charge instead of Von Braun or Korolev’s my favourite, skipping the whole “throw away” missile era and proceeding straight to re-usable space planes.
Wonderful thought - but you end up with only ~20% of the mass in orbit being payload, basically. Sänger's vehicles would have burned up on re-entry.

Some sort of reusable/reflyable system would be good, but 'spaceplanes' are not YET really viable. IF Kistler's K1 had ever flown, it might have been a decent compromise.

But ja, throwing away 95%+ of your vehicle is crazy.
 
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