WI: (semi)Russian Canada?

Say the Russians keep Alaska, and over time, gain more land in present-day Canada, which are filled by Russian migrants.

Is it possible for Canada to be formed as a predominantly ethnically Russian nation, or at the very least a nation with a huge Russian minority?

Would it be possible for them to coexist with the British and French settlers on the eastern coast in some sort of Anglo-Russo-French state, or would there likely be multiple states carved out of what is now Canada?

What would relations with the US be like?
 
Short of the British Empire collapsing, it's near impossible. By the time the Russians had any significant presence in Alaska, the british were already in Columbia.
 
Short of the British Empire collapsing, it's near impossible. By the time the Russians had any significant presence in Alaska, the british were already in Columbia.

Hmmm...what if the British buy Alaska rather than the US?

Would they have any desire or incentive to do so?

If so (maybe with an earlier POD that lends itself to earlier and more Russian immigration), could we see a sort of "Russian Quebec" (Even if the majority of the country is still majorly Anglophone) forming out of Alaska, after it joins Canada?
 
Short of the British Empire collapsing, it's near impossible. By the time the Russians had any significant presence in Alaska, the british were already in Columbia.

And if the British collapse then the Americans and French are poised to step in long before the Russians can. Russia was never really in a good position to settle or contest its territory in N. America. Alaska is physically close to Russia but logistically it may as well be in the south Pacific. It's much easier for the British to get from London to Vancouver than it is to get from Saint Petersburg to Vancouver. I think you need a POD that modernizes Russia long before they did in OTL.

Any Russian colony in Alaska is going to be small by the nature of the land. To really challenge the expansion of Canada and the US the Russians are going to need to dramatically bump up their population and to do that settle at least as far south as Oregon to take advantage of the better climate.
 
Hmmm...what if the British buy Alaska rather than the US?

Would they have any desire or incentive to do so?

Yes, once gold is discovered in the Yukon. The easiest routes to the gold fields pass through Alaska, which lead into this in OTL. The question really is if Russia would sell during the Great Game.

If so (maybe with an earlier POD that lends itself to earlier and more Russian immigration), could we see a sort of "Russian Quebec" (Even if the majority of the country is still majorly Anglophone) forming out of Alaska, after it joins Canada?
I don't think the Russian population grew large enough to potentially survive assimilation the way the Quebecois have. Doesn't mean we couldn't see islands of Russophones in the sea of Anglophonic Canadian Alaska. But it'd be more comparable to Francophones in the Prairies rather than Francophones in Quebec.
 
I don't think the Russian population grew large enough to potentially survive assimilation the way the Quebecois have. Doesn't mean we couldn't see islands of Russophones in the sea of Anglophonic Canadian Alaska. But it'd be more comparable to Francophones in the Prairies rather than Francophones in Quebec.

Is there anyway to get more Russians into Alaska earlier, enough to form strong, stable, and fairly independent communities that could survive said assimilation, or does the territory not really lend itself to that?
 
Is there anyway to get more Russians into Alaska earlier, enough to form strong, stable, and fairly independent communities that could survive said assimilation, or does the territory not really lend itself to that?

Well, the Czars could force an ethnic group out there. Jews, Volga Germans, Cossacks, Poles, Finns, Uzbeks, pick something...
 
... logistically it may as well be in the south Pacific. It's much easier for the British to get from London to Vancouver than it is to get from Saint Petersburg to Vancouver.

No, I think they could logistically support the South Pacific more easily.

AHC: Have Alaska Colonized by a country that would have more problems supporting it Logistically than Russia. Seriously, *without* a northwest (or northeast) passage, what ports are farther from Anchorage than Saint Petersburg? or vice versa
 
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Is there anyway to get more Russians into Alaska earlier, enough to form strong, stable, and fairly independent communities that could survive said assimilation, or does the territory not really lend itself to that?

I don't know enough about Russian history to suggest an alternative to what naraht posted. But the dumping of undesirable ethnic groups in Alaska would increase the willingness of Russia to sell. After all, what is an icebox filled with enemies to the state compared to oodles of money?
 
Say the Russians keep Alaska, and over time, gain more land in present-day Canada, which are filled by Russian migrants.

Is it possible for Canada to be formed as a predominantly ethnically Russian nation, or at the very least a nation with a huge Russian minority?

A huge minority of Western Canadians IRL have some Ukrainian ancestry. They descend mainly from Galicians who left after their homeland became part of Russia. You'd just need a reason for more emigrants to leave.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Yeah, but ... it's not like Russia ever has had a lack of

I don't know enough about Russian history to suggest an alternative to what naraht posted. But the dumping of undesirable ethnic groups in Alaska would increase the willingness of Russia to sell. After all, what is an icebox filled with enemies to the state compared to oodles of money?

Yeah, but ... it's not like Russia ever has had a lack of iceboxes to fill with penal colonies in their own hemisphere.

Even today the population density in Russia (European and Asia) is tiny.

If you want a penal colony, there is plenty of Central Asia, Siberia, and the Russian Arctic to fill up...

It's sort of like Argentina and Chile colonizing Antarctica, or the Australians, or whatever - when there is plenty of empty space (Patagonia, the Ouutback, etc) closer to home, why bother?

Even today, Alaska has barely any population, and the Canadian Arctic and sub-Arctic isn't any different.

Best,
 
Say the Russians keep Alaska, and over time, gain more land in present-day Canada, which are filled by Russian migrants.

Is it possible for Canada to be formed as a predominantly ethnically Russian nation, or at the very least a nation with a huge Russian minority?

Would it be possible for them to coexist with the British and French settlers on the eastern coast in some sort of Anglo-Russo-French state, or would there likely be multiple states carved out of what is now Canada?

What would relations with the US be like?

No.

Russia had a heck of a time getting people to go to Alaska. Getting enough to provide a serious percentage of Canada's population THROUGH ALASKA would be very, very, very difficult.

Now, if you want a different route, look at the Canadian Prairies iOTL. A very significant chunk of the population there is a) Ukrainians and b) Mennonites and other heterodox believers who fled Russia (Catholic and Protestant Germans, Doukhobors, Hutterites, etc.)

The number of my classmates who had names like Strelioff, Sawatzky, Dyck and Epp was huge.

Having a more oppressive Russian regime, having someone like Clifford Sifton earlier, possibly breeding a shorter season wheat earlier - or having a good market for rye, perhaps, could all get you a lot more dissident exRussians in Canada.
 
In the mid 1800's Russia had very negative relationships with the UK in the wake of the Crimean War. Russia selling Alaska to the UK in 1867 or any time near then very unlikely. You could actually see Alaska going to the USA in 1905 - the Japanese might ask for it in the wake of their victory, but T.R. was minimizing Japanese gains with the Treaty of Portsmouth so a compromise might be Russia gives up Alaska but sells it to USA.

Russian forces in Alaska, Aleutian Islands represent a potential threat to Northern Japan, so this works.
 
What do you think would have happened if the gold deposits of Nome had been found by Kotzebue expedition in 1816?

By 1853 and Crimean War, Russians might have had a settlement in Alaska too profitable and populous to sell off or let the British conquer...
 
Is there anyway to get more Russians into Alaska earlier, enough to form strong, stable, and fairly independent communities that could survive said assimilation, or does the territory not really lend itself to that?

There are several indigenous communities in Alaska - Ninilchik comes to mind - where the local indigenous language was replaced wholescale by 18th- to 19th-century Russian (tied in with the introduction of the Russian Orthodox Church), albeit with elements of the previous indigenous language. Of course, once the English language was introduced, some of those dialectal varieties began to disappear, with some communities like Ninilchik being an exception.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Possibly, but Alaska is still a LONG way from anywhere one

What do you think would have happened if the gold deposits of Nome had been found by Kotzebue expedition in 1816?

By 1853 and Crimean War, Russians might have had a settlement in Alaska too profitable and populous to sell off or let the British conquer...

Possibly, but Alaska is still a LONG way from anywhere one would call a Russian population center before 1900 ... and are they any more lucrative by 1820 (or exploitable) then the mineral resources already being developed in Russian territory in Europe and/or Asia?

I don't know, but significant colonization across distances like that pretty rare in the Eighteenth and Nineteenth centuries; British colonization of Australia and New Zealand, which is the great counterexample, was driven by some very specific policies that arose from the collapse of the British Empire in the Western Hemisphere and the general unattractiveness of most of the interior of what was then British North America for Europeans.

Alaska, even with an "early" gold rush, is unlikely to be much more attractive to Europeans than, say, Ungava/New Quebec, northern Ontario, and the Red River/Selkirk/Manitoba colonies ever were for Anglo- or even Francophone "BNAers" and Europeans.

There's also the issue of policy - with Czarist Russia be willing to allow the sort of wide open frontier/mining culture that led to developments like the population explosion under US control after the Gold Rush of 1849? Russia was an autocracy, after all.

Emigration requires and push and a pull.

Best,
 
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