WI Saddam Hussein dies pre 9/11?

I'm no fan of the Iraq War, but Uday and Qusay would have been worse than Saddam

I don't think Qusay would have been worse than Saddam; he was just a standard dictatorial thug like his father. It was Uday that was the real psycho.

Uday IIRC was already in decline by the time of the '96 assassination attempt; Qusay quickly eclipsed him. If Saddam died at any point from the mid nineties onwards, I don't think there's any doubt Qusay would have succeeded him. Certainly by the 2000s, Qusay was very solidly established within the regime.
 
I don't think Qusay would have been worse than Saddam; he was just a standard dictatorial thug like his father. It was Uday that was the real psycho.

Uday IIRC was already in decline by the time of the '96 assassination attempt; Qusay quickly eclipsed him. If Saddam died at any point from the mid nineties onwards, I don't think there's any doubt Qusay would have succeeded him. Certainly by the 2000s, Qusay was very solidly established within the regime.

Pretty much my feeling, any time after that incident in 1988 seems fairly slim for Qusay to become president.
 
Pretty much my feeling, any time after that incident in 1988 seems fairly slim for Qusay to become president.

You mean Uday. Anyway, I agree Qusay would become President, especially considering he led the Republican Guard and the internal security forces. Uday had no real position of power other than being Saddam's son.
 
Actually thanks to Saddam's inefficient collectivization policies, Ba'athist Iraq was never self-sufficient in agriculture.

Now that you mention it, I remember reading somewhere that (prior to the Gulf War) Iraq imported around 70% of its food. I'll admit that the sanctions on Iraq may have been overkill, but Saddam is still the real villain here. He was willing to risk destroying the livelihood of the Iraqi people for the sake of his ego. Saddam was a fool for thinking he could just waltz into Kuwait without the rest of the world reacting.
 
You mean Uday. Anyway, I agree Qusay would become President, especially considering he led the Republican Guard and the internal security forces. Uday had no real position of power other than being Saddam's son.

Yes, yes I do, I knew at least one time I would confuse the two.

But yeah, Qusay has everything going for him, and it really isn't hard to imagine the Republican Guard as becoming a Praetorian sort of organization in Iraqi politics.

Now that you mention it, I remember reading somewhere that (prior to the Gulf War) Iraq imported around 70% of its food. I'll admit that the sanctions on Iraq may have been overkill, but Saddam is still the real villain here. He was willing to risk destroying the livelihood of the Iraqi people for the sake of his ego. Saddam was a fool for thinking he could just waltz into Kuwait without the rest of the world reacting.

Actually the sanctions made explicit allowances for food and the import of the basic necessities of life and livelihood. Saddam spent all the money he could have used for that on vanities and quiet rearmament, and then blamed the evil West for inflicting economic hardship on Iraq, rather than his own actions.
 
Actually the sanctions made explicit allowances for food and the import of the basic necessities of life and livelihood.
Chlorine (which Iraq needed to treat its drinking water) and Vaccines were not allowed under the sanctions because they were considered "Dual Use" items. I am not contesting that Saddam was to blame for the hardships the Iraqi people suffered from 1991-2003, but there were some humanitarian items Iraq simply couldn't import under the sanctions.
 
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There was an interesting Economist article a few months before Gulf War 1 which said that Iraq had about the right balance of population, food production and energy production and as long as saddam could pay off his debts from the Iran Iraq war and not start another things were looking quite good for the country.......It also pointed out how vulnerable Iraq was to Turkey and/or Syria turning off the water.
 
Chlorine (which Iraq needed to treat its drinking water) and Vaccines were not allowed under the sanctions because they were considered "Dual Use" items. I am not contesting that Saddam was to blame for the hardships the Iraqi people suffered from 1991-2003, but there were some humanitarian items Iraq simply couldn't import under the sanctions.

That is true, but my point was more the issue that it is a common misconception that Iraq suffered horribly as a result of the cackling, evil West oppressing the free Arab peoples of Iraq, when in reality, the sanction regime would have allowed Iraq to continue to limp along, albeit in a damaged and highly fragile state. Saddam spent his country into oblivion, and then blamed the West when the people starved.

There was even an anecdote from when he was planning to construct the largest mosque in the world. An aide asked him about the currently starving Iraqi population. Saddam's response was that Nebuchadnezzar of Ancient Mesopotamia had not cared either about the cost to the lives of his citizens, that he had been building a civilization.
 
The feeling I'm getting from this thread is if Saddam dies early the less insane son takes power and basically becomes a nasty but more or less normal dictator who may or may not have done a better job of running Iraq.

Is that about right?
 
The feeling I'm getting from this thread is if Saddam dies early the less insane son takes power and basically becomes a nasty but more or less normal dictator who may or may not have done a better job of running Iraq.

Is that about right?

Killing for Qusay was always described as being like business. He did it because it was how he kept power. For Uday, it was more of a violently erratic behavior. Qusay was coldly pragmatic, Uday was violently insane.
 
The feeling I'm getting from this thread is if Saddam dies early the less insane son takes power and basically becomes a nasty but more or less normal dictator who may or may not have done a better job of running Iraq.

Is that about right?

Qusay Hussein probably would have been Saddam 2: Saddam Harder, so OTL would have likely continued in the same trajectory. He would have been similar enough to still draw the same neocon ire once directed at his father, so the Iraq war probably still happens basically the same. Qusay would likely have been the Iraqi Kim Jong-il: a disappointing follow-up nobody was asking for.

Uday Hussein has got to be one of the most fascinating figures of the late 20th century. He was a throwback to a past that probably didn't even happen; more at home in a Conan the Barbarian novel than in real life, or perhaps a story exploring the seedier side of ancient Rome. Imagine if Prince Charles murdered a man in front of the whole royal family and Michelle Obama, with an electric carving knife. You can't make that up.
 
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