WI: Russian Principalities unite earlier?

Onyx

Banned
What would happen if one of the Russian states (Novgorod, Vladimir-Suzdal, Kiev) could manage to unite the fractured states and advance before the Mongols could arrive?
 
I still think the Rus lose to the Mongols, united or not. However, it would set a example of unified Russia for others to follow, that could lead some pretty interesting butterflies. Maybe a quicker post-Mongol unification could be on the cards?

I think Kiev would be the most likley candidate, however, as Russian Sailor said, they were in somewhat in the process of their own demise. Novrogod is too busy focusing on the Baltic, and I dont think Vladmir-Suzdal had the strength to acomplish it (though admittley I know little about them). So I think a POD with a more North-looking Kiev is a good place to start.


(Sorry this is quite vauge, I really just wanted to bump the topic becuase it sounds quite interesting:p)
 

Onyx

Banned
(Sorry this is quite vauge, I really just wanted to bump the topic becuase it sounds quite interesting:p)

Well thank you anyway :eek:, Im trying to strive another TL with Vladimir Suzdal and Kievan Rus surviving Mongol conquest and actually defeating them.

Maybe have Iaroslav not divide Kievan Rus up?
 
Well thank you anyway :eek:, Im trying to strive another TL with Vladimir Suzdal and Kievan Rus surviving Mongol conquest and actually defeating them.

Maybe have Iaroslav not divide Kievan Rus up?

yah but if you can make the mongol's bloody their noses a bit. This should toughen them up:)

Also I think if the russian states like Vladimer Suzdal and Kieven Rus are going to beat the mongol's they need to know first hand how the mongol's fight and how they are organize or they will have a fat chance winning.
 
How about Subutai avoids eastern europe all together and instead focuses on ravaging wealthier territories Egypt, Anatolia, or India perhaps.

This keeps the mongols off the Russians backs for a little while longer, and when they face them they will likely be weaker, possessing a worse general (considering Subutai's impossible degree of asskickery).
 
Okay, the Mongols aren't some sort of geological PoD. They weren't historically destined to go about conquering most of Asia.
 
How about Subutai avoids eastern europe all together and instead focuses on ravaging wealthier territories Egypt, Anatolia, or India perhaps.

This keeps the mongols off the Russians backs for a little while longer, and when they face them they will likely be weaker, possessing a worse general (considering Subutai's impossible degree of asskickery).


I was wondering about that if Egypt is ravaged by the mongol's what would happen to Africa as a whole?
I mean when the mongol's ravaged europe the european's were introduced to gunpowder so what would that do for the African's?
 
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