WI: Russian Intervention in ACW

An underused trope is Civil War interventionism not where it involved the French and/or British joining on the side of the Confederacy, but the fact that Russia had good relations with the United States and would have joined the war on their side had the British and French gotten involved. And therein lies the issue of various alliances and friendships which have the grave potential to make life interesting, in the Chinese sense. And the potential for a global conflict. I do think it had the potential, though not necessarily the destiny, to become a world war. It would have been a larger conflict regardless.

So what if, in reaction to British and/or French intervention, the Russians intervened?
 

LordKalvert

Banned
It would be hard to see the Russians being able to intervene directly in the American Civil War but they would probably been happy to take advantage of British/French intervention to attack Constantinople and draw off the interventionist forces.

In this scenario, the North would still win and then probably attack the British and the French. They came close enough to blows with the French over Mexico

End result- the North liberates Mexico, occupies Canada and drives the allies from the Western Hemisphere. The Russians might end up with the Straits and the Prussians are going to have it real easy in the Franco-Prussian War if the French still try it
 

Redhand

Banned
Russia, having just freed the serfs, probably had too many internal problems at the time to consider far away foreign adventurism.

In regards to Russia getting the straits, how would this even work? Would they annex the entire Western Black Sea coast to make the possession continuous and landlock or even annex Romania? What happens to the Ottoman provinces West of Constantinople in the Balkans? Do the Ottomans move to Ankara as their capital or do they abandon the idea of getting back into Europe and make it something like Damascus? Does Armenia gain independence? This just seems like an overused trope of Russian desires in the 19th century and I just fail to see how it could happen.
 

LordKalvert

Banned
Russia, having just freed the serfs, probably had too many internal problems at the time to consider far away foreign adventurism.

In regards to Russia getting the straits, how would this even work? Would they annex the entire Western Black Sea coast to make the possession continuous and landlock or even annex Romania? What happens to the Ottoman provinces West of Constantinople in the Balkans? Do the Ottomans move to Ankara as their capital or do they abandon the idea of getting back into Europe and make it something like Damascus? Does Armenia gain independence? This just seems like an overused trope of Russian desires in the 19th century and I just fail to see how it could happen.


The Russians are busy dealing with the Polish uprising. They respond by sending their fleet to America so it can attack English and French shipping. The Americans thought it was there to intervene in the Civil War and made good propaganda out of it

The Russians are very happy that the French are in Mexico where they threaten no one. I can see the Russians encouraging the Americans to attack Mexico and Canada. If the Anglo-French forces move, the Russians grab the straits

The North has such supremacy over the South that the American Civil War is never really in question
 
A non-starter. Russia has no way to take advantage of the situation and any military forces she could throw the North's way are laughable at best and suicidal at worst. The Russian fleet was a joke and at best could serve as a nasty irritant to British shipping for a time before either being sunk or simply running out of supplies.

Russia might have supported the US morally, but had little ability to either take advantage of the distraction of the Great Powers, or to help the US at all.
 
It would be hard to see the Russians being able to intervene directly in the American Civil War but they would probably been happy to take advantage of British/French intervention to attack Constantinople and draw off the interventionist forces.

In this scenario, the North would still win and then probably attack the British and the French. They came close enough to blows with the French over Mexico

End result- the North liberates Mexico, occupies Canada and drives the allies from the Western Hemisphere. The Russians might end up with the Straits and the Prussians are going to have it real easy in the Franco-Prussian War if the French still try it
Looks like the world just got a little freer.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Define "intervened"...

An underused trope is Civil War interventionism not where it involved the French and/or British joining on the side of the Confederacy, but the fact that Russia had good relations with the United States and would have joined the war on their side had the British and French gotten involved. And therein lies the issue of various alliances and friendships which have the grave potential to make life interesting, in the Chinese sense. And the potential for a global conflict. I do think it had the potential, though not necessarily the destiny, to become a world war. It would have been a larger conflict regardless.

So what if, in reaction to British and/or French intervention, the Russians intervened?

Define "intervened"...

Awful lot of leeway in that word.

Best,
 

Redhand

Banned
Russia's strength lies in its ability to send hordes of soldiers at people over land and overwhelm them with the shear ferocity and size of an attack. Global power projection is not their strong suit, that is Britain's, and if Russian intervention leads to British intervention, Lincoln probably says thanks but no thanks.
 
The Russian navy was still the third largest in the world in 1860 so they could probably ship over some stuff
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
I think Russian intervention on the Union's side would actually hurt the Union's cause quite a bit. By bringing in Russian "mercenaries" (which is how Confederates and Peace Democrats would happily portray it), the Lincoln administration would give the appearance of being unable to suppress the Southern rebellion on its own, lending enormous political and diplomatic credibility to the Confederate assertion of nationhood. The parallels that would be drawn between Russians fighting for Lincoln and Hessians fighting for George III would be tailor-made for pro-Southern propaganda.

The British and the French both consider Russia an enemy, so if Russia intervenes on behalf of the Union, it would give a much stronger incentive for them to recognize the Confederacy as an independent state. At the very least, they would be more willing to look the other way as rebel cruisers are outfitted in British ports. The Laird Rams, as a single example, would be much more likely to enter Confederate service in this scenario.

Whatever logistical help the Russians could provide would be massively outweighed by the moral, political, and diplomatic advantages that would accrue to the Confederates.
 
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