WI: Russia had kept Alaska?

Did you pull that out from the Russian forum?
Seriously, it's a very common idea there, and I think Pasha even wrote a story about it :)

Nope. It was just something that popped into my head.
The idea of a Russian Alaska in 1919 kind of reminded me of Taiwan. A detached safe haven for the losers of the civil war to fall back to.
 

abc123

Banned
How many is enough?

And the number of cities at the time of the Gold Rush isn't nearly as relevant as how many are established by the same prospectors one is eager to keep in check.

I'm not saying this is utterly impossible, but for something on the far end of Russian territory, this is a pretty big investment.


True, but hardly that someone can found the city without that russian authorities find out about that?
 
True, but hardly that someone can found the city without that russian authorities find out about that?

True, but when you've got 40,000 prospectors vs. a hundred or so Russian officials, what can the Russians realistically hope to do in order to stop them?
 
After the revolution in 1918 the US and Canada would team up to keep Russia out of the Reds hands. If this means a safe haven for the whites that might work, but the US would not let the Reds have a safe haven on the continent. It is a lot easier to ship troops from Seattle or Vancouver in Canada to there then when they sent troops to Vladivostok in the Intervention. Post WWI in the red scare would be even worse. If we occupied it Alaska would either be made a territory/commonwealth like the Philippenes or Pourto Rico after the Spanish American war.
 
but if the Japanese grab it in 1905 and they send settlers to it, they now have alot of resources, even oil, so they don't have to attack europian during the war, they can just sit quietly and to kill china
 
but if the Japanese grab it in 1905 and they send settlers to it, they now have alot of resources, even oil, so they don't have to attack europian during the war, they can just sit quietly and to kill china

I don't really know for certain but I would wager that alaska's oil is deeper than 1940 technology could access.

For Japan why would they make a gamble on basically worthless alaska when the proven richness of Manchuria is accessible?
 
Also, the possession of the Yukon was undisputed. In a joint Yukon-Alaska Gold Rush it's only natural that most of the American prospectors would flood Alaska, while the Canadians would head for the Yukon. Britain was not about to launch a "Gold War" with the US so far from it's own centers while Canada was already enjoying a golden bounty of its' own.
Of course, it's possible that Canadians might not have as much respect for the boundaries of Russian Alaska, since UK-Russian relations were quite cold, in contrast to Britain's efforts to get along with the US. Also, unlike the US, Russia could not effectively project any power into Alaska in the face of British opposition. If the UK wants Russian Alaska, taking it won't be hard at all.

I don't really know for certain but I would wager that alaska's oil is deeper than 1940 technology could access.

For Japan why would they make a gamble on basically worthless alaska when the proven richness of Manchuria is accessible?

Considering how undeveloped Russian Alaska was, taking it probably wouldn't require anything near the sort of commitment that would impact Japan's ability to expand into Manchuria; putting one gunboat in Sitka's harbor, and another in Kodiak's, would probably be enough.

Sans the gold rush, Alaska probably wouldn't see much expansion or development (and the gold rush would probably be a fatal blow to Russian ownership anyway).
 

abc123

Banned
True, but when you've got 40,000 prospectors vs. a hundred or so Russian officials, what can the Russians realistically hope to do in order to stop them?

Yes, that's why I said that increase in number of russian soldiers, administrators, police and customs officers etc. will be nescesarry.
 
Does Alaska have warm water ports? I think I remember climate there is warmer than in Siberia because of currents flowing north along the North American West Coast. If this is true and the Russians place a second squadron there as somebody suggested, then it would help them a lot in the Russo-Japanese War and considerably tip the balance in their favor (no voyage around the world of the Baltic Sea Fleet and no Tsushima - at least as we know it). In OTL the Japanese were starting to get a bit desperate just before the Russians asked for peace.
 
Yes, that's why I said that increase in number of russian soldiers, administrators, police and customs officers etc. will be nescesarry.

How large of an increase would be within Russian capabilities? I'm uncertain whether it would be enough to contain the gold rush; the numbers disparity is rather massive, after all. Also, the British would probably not be happy about Russia establishing a large, standing force in Alaska.

Further, the Tsarist regime had its share of corruption problems, and Alaska is almost certain to be a very undesirable posting. Even if Russia can build a large enough force to keep gold rushers out, the locals might not be too keen on enforcing the Tsar's policy. Between low morale and a lack of supervision from Moscow, the soldiers in Alaska might easily be bribed into looking the other way when American prospectors show up. Then there are worse possibilities, like some of the soldiers and other officials deserting and joining the gold rush themselves...

Also, the Russians might not have time to reinforce their presence in Alaska once the gold rush starts. After all, it would probably take quite a while for word to reach the Tsar, and for any reinforcements to be organized, and then the time to ship them to Alaska. Americans are a lot closer.
 

abc123

Banned
How large of an increase would be within Russian capabilities? I'm uncertain whether it would be enough to contain the gold rush; the numbers disparity is rather massive, after all. Also, the British would probably not be happy about Russia establishing a large, standing force in Alaska.

Further, the Tsarist regime had its share of corruption problems, and Alaska is almost certain to be a very undesirable posting. Even if Russia can build a large enough force to keep gold rushers out, the locals might not be too keen on enforcing the Tsar's policy. Between low morale and a lack of supervision from Moscow, the soldiers in Alaska might easily be bribed into looking the other way when American prospectors show up. Then there are worse possibilities, like some of the soldiers and other officials deserting and joining the gold rush themselves...

Also, the Russians might not have time to reinforce their presence in Alaska once the gold rush starts. After all, it would probably take quite a while for word to reach the Tsar, and for any reinforcements to be organized, and then the time to ship them to Alaska. Americans are a lot closer.

Well, smart people allways can find solutions...
You give to each soldier in reward half the gold that he finds in some illegal prospector, and you will have a very effective police/army...
Also, to give incentive for populating of Alaska/serving there, you give a promise that after 5 years of service there, veteran soldier will get a free gold prospecting licence, no tax on gold that he finds there...;) Plus enough all the wood needed to construct a house there.
Like old Rome.
 

abc123

Banned
Does Alaska have warm water ports? I think I remember climate there is warmer than in Siberia because of currents flowing north along the North American West Coast. If this is true and the Russians place a second squadron there as somebody suggested, then it would help them a lot in the Russo-Japanese War and considerably tip the balance in their favor (no voyage around the world of the Baltic Sea Fleet and no Tsushima - at least as we know it). In OTL the Japanese were starting to get a bit desperate just before the Russians asked for peace.

That's another intresting point.
Anchorage harbour is ideal for that.
 
Just checked the issue in the Genocide - Apparently Sitka/Novoarchangelsk aside of the capital was already a warm water port, and one quite busy. So that's that.

There is another interesting point: the main promoter of the sale on the Russian side, Eduard de Stoeckl, claimed that as long as Russia continued dumping cash in Alaska she would have less to invest in the Amur territories... So could this result in a lesser Russian penetration in Manchuria and avoid the Russo-Japanese War altogether?
 
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