WI : Rommel captured during Operation Crusader.

Rommel was very nearly captured on 20th November 1941 during Operation Crusader when his vehicle broke down behind the British lines, spending a night hiding in it whilst an Indian column passed.

What if the column inspected the vehicle and captured Rommel. How would this affect the war in the Middle East?
 

Deleted member 1487

Rommel was very nearly captured on 20th November 1941 during Operation Crusader when his vehicle broke down behind the British lines, spending a night hiding in it whilst an Indian column passed.

What if the column inspected the vehicle and captured Rommel. How would this affect the war in the Middle East?
Less recklessness in 1942? Probably no Gazala depending on who takes over, which changes quite a bit in that campaign. Maybe it ends up being more a backwater theater given that without the media star that Rommel was and with his connections with Hitler and indeed the humiliation of Rommel being captured Hitler might well see it as a resource sinkhole without value beyond keeping Italy in the war. I'd think that the Malta invasion goes ahead in 1942 without the invasion of Egypt or success at Gazala and Tobruk, which has significant knock on effects.
 
Rommel's retreat after El Alamein was a masterclass of running away, not in a cowardly fashion but in abandoning territory

With him gone, a new commander might make a stand at Tobruk, Benghazi, or Tripoli.
 
Rommel's retreat after El Alamein was a masterclass of running away, not in a cowardly fashion but in abandoning territory

With him gone, a new commander might make a stand at Tobruk, Benghazi, or Tripoli.
Monty and the rest had been exposed to a large dose of operant conditioning administered by Rommel and the DAK, from the 'Hey diddle diddle, straight up the middle' armored thrusts smack into a PAK Front for years, so were very wary of the Desert Fox pulling a trick on them

With him caged, along with his reputation, I feel the British would advance much faster than OTL
 
Monty and the rest had been exposed to a large dose of operant conditioning administered by Rommel and the DAK, from the 'Hey diddle diddle, straight up the middle' armored thrusts smack into a PAK Front for years, so were very wary of the Desert Fox pulling a trick on them

With him caged, along with his reputation, I feel the British would advance much faster than OTL

I just love that History according to the interwebs would have us believe that the fastest advance conducted then to date....was slow!

Less recklessness in 1942? Probably no Gazala depending on who takes over, which changes quite a bit in that campaign. Maybe it ends up being more a backwater theater given that without the media star that Rommel was and with his connections with Hitler and indeed the humiliation of Rommel being captured Hitler might well see it as a resource sinkhole without value beyond keeping Italy in the war. I'd think that the Malta invasion goes ahead in 1942 without the invasion of Egypt or success at Gazala and Tobruk, which has significant knock on effects.

I also love that the slightest change in the North Africa campaign (for good or bad) results in Malta being invaded!
 

Deleted member 1487

I just love that History according to the interwebs would have us believe that the fastest advance conducted then to date....was slow!
You mean fastest retreat ;)

I also love that the slightest change in the North Africa campaign (for good or bad) results in Malta being invaded!
The plan WAS to invade Malta before Egypt was invaded and they stop the invasion plan because if they had taken Egypt it would have rendered the invasion plan redundant.
 
You mean fastest retreat ;)


The plan WAS to invade Malta before Egypt was invaded and they stop the invasion plan because if they had taken Egypt it would have rendered the invasion plan redundant.

Yes it was also very probably the fastest 'retrograde manoeuvre' as well

As for Malta - I imagine the planners had a look and very quickly decided that anything else was a better idea!

I can think of more useful ways of getting paratroopers killed than dropping them on an Island that is one large rock garden festooned with AAA.
 

Deleted member 1487

Yes it was also very probably the fastest 'retrograde manoeuvre' as well

As for Malta - I imagine the planners had a look and very quickly decided that anything else was a better idea!
It was approved in April 1942, but since it would take until July or August to muster the necessary forces and the invasion of Egypt happened they opted to throw everything instead into Egypt.

I can think of more useful ways of getting paratroopers killed than dropping them on an Island that is one large rock garden festooned with AAA.
It was almost out of supplies by late summer 1942:
Despite the reduction in direct air pressure over Malta itself, the situation on the island was serious. It was running out of all essential commodities, particularly food and water, as the bombing had crippled pumps and distribution pipes. Clothing was also hard to come by. All livestock had been slaughtered, and the lack of leather meant people were forced to use curtains and used tyres to replace clothing and shoe soles. Although the civilian population was enduring, the threat of starvation was very real.[156] Poor nutrition and sanitation led to the spread of disease. Soldiers’ rations were also reduced, from four to two thousand calories a day and the British prepared to supply the island with two convoy operations.[157]

Ultimately it was Op. Pedestal in August that prevented the island from surrendering:
The arrival of about 32,000 short tons (29,000 t) of general cargo, together with petrol, oil fuel, kerosene and diesel fuel, was enough to give the island about ten more weeks' supply beyond the few weeks that the existing stocks would last.

The AAA was even low on ammo IIRC and would have been suppressed by a large air and naval attack.
 
I just love that History according to the interwebs would have us believe that the fastest advance conducted then to date....was slow!
November 11, 1942, loss at 2nd Alamein, and failed to cut off the DAK at Mersa Matruh

December 15th, failed again at El Agheila

Christmas, 8th Army was at Sirte.
Monty waited for a buildup at Buerat, east of the old Mareth Line, until Jan 16th when he massively outnumbered the Germans
DAK had successfully retreated faster than Monty would advance, reaching the Mareth Line, 2200km in 70 days. About 30km a day

Soldiers in the Age of Reason to the Napoleonic Wars, also averaged around 25-30 km a day, marching.

Yep, that's some blistering speed, right there
 
One thing is sure, If Rommel was captured, he probably would have had a better chance of surviving the war. Instead of being forced to commit because of the July 20th plot.
 
If he was captured and actually alive at the ebd of the war will he allowed to come back to west germany and even maybe serve in the bundeswehr?
 

Deleted member 1487

Well if the allies allows it will the east german criticize the decision and will it make some controversy in west germany?
Eh, probably not since Rommel basically ceases to be a celebrity in late 1941 and really doesn't have much clout at home when he comes back. After all his antics got him captured and his army lost their general at a critical moment. He might well fly under the radar and be so inconsequential in the scheme of things that no one really cares ITTL.
 
Eh, probably not since Rommel basically ceases to be a celebrity in late 1941 and really doesn't have much clout at home when he comes back. After all his antics got him captured and his army lost their general at a critical moment. He might well fly under the radar and be so inconsequential in the scheme of things that no one really cares ITTL.
Nah, still did good and France, as well as up to Op. Crusader.
What clout he does have, is the the DAK fought 'Clean'

Had von Thoma lived longer, he probably would have been tapped for the Bundeswehr, too.
 
Even if the Germans managed to land forces in and on Malta it's not going to be an easy win, if at all.
A cross between Yugoslavia, Japanese held islands and, maybe Stalingrad
 
One thing is sure, If Rommel was captured, he probably would have had a better chance of surviving the war. Instead of being forced to commit because of the July 20th plot.
He might have a better chance, his family however.....
If he was captured and actually alive at the ebd of the war will he allowed to come back to west germany and even maybe serve in the bundeswehr?
I doubt that.

Depending on if the Allies let him survive the war in the first place, well the post-war trials anyway, and he isn't found guilty of any war-crimes, I think he would pull a Wenck and, if asked to join the Bundeswehr, basically turn them down because of the reforms to the force itself.
 
Rommel wanted to leave Malta alone. If he is not there, Kesselring might insists. and that changed a lot of things
 
I⁷
He might have a better chance, his family however.....

I doubt that.

Depending on if the Allies let him survive the war in the first place, well the post-war trials anyway, and he isn't found guilty of any war-crimes, I think he would pull a Wenck and, if asked to join the Bundeswehr, basically turn them down because of the reforms to the force itself.
Hmm yes but let say he does join the new bundeswehr what rank will they give him and will he stay long?
 
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