WI: Rome loses the social war?

What it says on the tin. Can Italia stay independent from Rome? Can it absorb Rome? What happens to Roman possessions outside of Italy?
 
Italia lacked really talented generals of the sort that Rome had in spades at this point. They'd lose the East to Mithridates, and they'd have to fight Roman remnant armies to assert control over Umbria, Etruria, Italian Gaul, Transalpine Gaul, and Spain. My inclination is that they fly apart when the object of their hatred is gone, and Italy balkanizes.
 
Not really : ressource-wise, socii were out of their league, had little cohesion in face of an already hegemonic Rome.

That said, it can be said that socii were defeated on paper, but won politically IOTL : after all they were given equal foot politically with Romans.
 
What it says on the tin. Can Italia stay independent from Rome? Can it absorb Rome? What happens to Roman possessions outside of Italy?

They don't want to win, that's the whole thing. There was no national identity in these times, and no one really wanted to have the nation of "Italy"united - like the Gauls, there only united against a common enemy (Rome), but not because their felt common (they even had different languages).

In fact, they only want to take part in the "administration" (the plundering) of the Roman provinces - they felt Roman and wanted to be considered as such.

What it says on the tin. Can Italia stay independent from Rome? Can it absorb Rome? What happens to Roman possessions outside of Italy?

Can it absorb Rome - since, because of the lack of any Italic cultural identity (look on the different Italic "tribes": e.g., the Etruscans and the Samnites spoke completly different languages) the Italic republic will fall apart once they have won against Rome, Rome will easily conquer them back one by one. And if they stay united, they will do so using Latin language as the lingua franca of the time and become Roman. Rome wins in both of the cases.
 
What it says on the tin. Can Italia stay independent from Rome? Can it absorb Rome? What happens to Roman possessions outside of Italy?
Victory for the Socii is getting full political representation. They sort of got this IOTL (see below). This is evidenced by the fact that almost immediately when things went sour for the Romans early on, they declared that any city that surrendered peacefully would get the full equality they desired.

Now to get them to get their own separate tribes, you would probably have to have them do slightly better militarily and then have the Marians end up on top in the civil wars (and ITTL, owing a huge debt to the Samnites) for them to get it. That's really the best scenario for the Italians, and it's all they wanted anyway.
That said, it can be said that socii were defeated on paper, but won politically IOTL : after all they were given equal foot politically with Romans.
Not really. They thought they won politically, but in reality, the Romans just packed them into already existent tribes, diluting their importance in the electorate.
 
Not really. They thought they won politically, but in reality, the Romans just packed them into already existent tribes, diluting their importance in the electorate.

Point taken, but it was at least partially their political objective, and a concession from Romans.
 
Not really. They thought they won politically, but in reality, the Romans just packed them into already existent tribes, diluting their importance in the electorate.

Let's say it this way: the normal, lower class Italic lost, since he became member of one of these tribes without any influence.

The upper class Italic won the war, because he became member of the Roman upper class and could run for Roman offices and become a powerful and influental member of Roman society.
 
Let's say it this way: the normal, lower class Italic lost, since he became member of one of these tribes without any influence.

The upper class Italic won the war, because he became member of the Roman upper class and could run for Roman offices and become a powerful and influental member of Roman society.
The lower class Italians could not afford to travel to Rome in the first place. The upper class Italians, the only ones who could have made any influence in the elections int he first place, both won and lost. They did come to influence the elections quite a bit-Senators campaigning were known to travel a bit to Italy to try to encourage them to come to Rome to vote. However, their influence was not as large as it could have been, because they were packed into the already existing tribes.
 
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