WI Roman Mesopotamia

But for all intents and purposes, that is the same as using a hammer to kill a bug. A POD in the Levant will drastically change things enough so that Trajan won't be marching into Mesopotamia AIOTL.

I know, I know. It just comes to my mind in cases like this. Especially since people never gave it much of attention when I suggested it as an independent POD.

Peaceful extermination of the Jews just isn't good enough for you people, is it?

You just need to have a bloodshed too. ;)
 
^^^ If I recall, Trajan DID reach the Gulf. Something about whimsically watching the trade ships set off for India, and wanting to follow like Alexander.

Trajan and Co. actually reached as east far as Susa. If he could do that, it seems highly probable that he could reach the Gulf.
 

Ak-84

Banned
Yes he did. I don't see the Roman Empire being divided into two if it reaches its natural frontier, lets remember that the original division was so one man could look after the Eastern Frontier while a second could look after the west. If there is a quiet east, there are more troops to the west. And since Rome transitioned from a city state to a global empire; overreach was something that was not an issue.:D
 
What are you getting at?

Roman Germany would provide the Empire with significantly more manpower.

Like I said, with access to ports in the Persian Gulf, one would have closer contact with the Indian states and further afield.

Well, the Romans already had plenty of contact with India, so there's no real change. What you would have is the people who live in Persia continuing to trade, but ISTM that's no major change.
 
Yes he did. I don't see the Roman Empire being divided into two if it reaches its natural frontier, lets remember that the original division was so one man could look after the Eastern Frontier while a second could look after the west. If there is a quiet east, there are more troops to the west. And since Rome transitioned from a city state to a global empire; overreach was something that was not an issue.:D
Rome split in two because it got to be too big to govern from one location. Travel times being what they were, it was stretching authority to its limit to maintain an imperial presence in the outlying provinces. Trying to control Britannia from Constantinople, or conversely Mesopotamia from Rome, would not have worked ("Yes My lord, it seems there was a border war last year. We hope to find out if we still hold those three provinces next month when the tax revenue comes in... or doesn't"). Much authority was invested in the local Dux, but if imperial power was centralized than some of those fringe Dux would start getting ideas about running things entirely their own way....
 
Roman Germany would provide the Empire with significantly more manpower.

Well sure, if the Gallic and German provinces could spare them.

So....I guess that the fracas with the Jewish population has to be averted somehow?! One possible reason for the concurrent rebellion was that the Judean felt that trade with their partners among the Parthians and the Arabs was threatened by the prospect of a Roman conquest. Plus, Parthian territory was traditionally the refuge for Jewish agitators against Roman rule. And also with a larger military presence within or around their homeland must have pissed them off. They were probably taxed to keep the army well provisioned as well. It won't be easy.


Well, the Romans already had plenty of contact with India, so there's no real change. What you would have is the people who live in Persia continuing to trade, but ISTM that's no major change.

If Hadrian was able to keep a Roman presence in Mesopotamia, then he would probably not have much trouble securing a small stretch of Parthian territory dividing him from the Persian Gulf. The Tigris River did stretch from Roman occupied Mesopotamia to the Gulf, did it not?!
 
Rome's campaigns in the Middle East consumed most of the empire's tax revenues. If the Romans had captured Babylon, they would find themselves constantly under attack by the Parthians or Sassanians (depending on when this occurred). Mesopotamia is not easy to defend against Persian cavalry raids either as it is surrounded by mountains and hills which are under Persian control. If the Romans attempted to hold Babylon or even the whole of Mesopotamia, then they would find themselves bankrupt much sooner than in OTL.
 
Well sure, if the Gallic and German provinces could spare them.
precisely, why shouldn't they be restive?
So....I guess that the fracas with the Jewish population has to be averted somehow?! One possible reason for the concurrent rebellion was that the Judean felt that trade with their partners among the Parthians and the Arabs was threatened by the prospect of a Roman conquest. Plus, Parthian territory was traditionally the refuge for Jewish agitators against Roman rule. And also with a larger military presence within or around their homeland must have pissed them off. They were probably taxed to keep the army well provisioned as well. It won't be easy.
if Judea is no longer a frontier province, but well inside the borders of the Empire, then the need for Legions is reduced (or transferred to Aremenia or Eastern Mesopotamia), and the burden on the local population is removed. The refuge question is still there, but India or perhaps Meroe might suit as a place beyond Roman control[/quote]
 
Why couldn't they? They served as recruitment sites OTL after all.


Perhaps what I should have said was that If there was more than enough of the potential recruits in the northern provinces other than the serving troops guarding the Rhine frontier, as well as those that are serving as part of the Army in the Mesopotamian Campaign, then you could send further reinforcements to hammer the Jews, before sending them to bolster the forces operating further east. I mean, after Trajan's death, Hadrian relinquished his recent gains back into Parthian control. Now, as Xenos said, the military expenditure was probably enormous?! Although, the goldmines in Roman Dacia, and the greater access to trade from the Asiatic Silk Road, could have potentially helped fund the campaign. Or maybe it was that the Jewish Revolt at the time, and of course, Hadrian's own unwillingness to secure his predecessor's acquisitions there. I think that the real obstacle might have been Hadrians own defensive policies. Either you could find someone more daring to replace Hadrian, or find a way to motivate him into securing Mesopotamia for years to come.
 
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