WI : Roman Empire - Foederati Beyond The Borders.

GdwnsnHo

Banned
I was wondering what would have happened if instead of giving away land in Gaul and other regions to the Foederati in exchange for service in defence of the frontier and to conquer their new homes, if instead they transported them to lands that they would have overlordship over, as reasonably free vassals of Rome instead.

Typically to lands that avoid the problems of Continental Europe.

Potential territories

- Beyond Hadrians Wall - use the Foederati backed by Roman Engineers and Legions to conquer the rest of the Isles.

- Arabia - Sending men to mix up the Arabian Peninsula - Warm lands in exchange for service (even if they'll need teaching to survive). Controlling this helps protect them in Egypt - and makes a longer front for the Sassanids if they invade.

- North Africa (beyond the coasts). If they were able to establish more towns south of the Atlas, these towns and fortifications could strengthen the frontier against Moors, and other desert invaders.

- South of Egypt - Whilst Aksum has some control here - any additional territory that can be controlled and is survivable (i.e. no mass die-off from disease) would shore up the Romans control over the Red Sea

Now if the only requirements of the deal afterwards are to provide soldiers for the armies, and obviously to defend their territories in self-interest, how would the Empire, the Foederati and the areas mentioned evolve?

Also, what other areas could this plan be implemented in?
 
I was wondering what would have happened if instead of giving away land in Gaul and other regions to the Foederati in exchange for service in defence of the frontier and to conquer their new homes, if instead they transported them to lands that they would have overlordship over, as reasonably free vassals of Rome instead.

Typically to lands that avoid the problems of Continental Europe.

Potential territories

- Beyond Hadrians Wall - use the Foederati backed by Roman Engineers and Legions to conquer the rest of the Isles.

- Arabia - Sending men to mix up the Arabian Peninsula - Warm lands in exchange for service (even if they'll need teaching to survive). Controlling this helps protect them in Egypt - and makes a longer front for the Sassanids if they invade.

- North Africa (beyond the coasts). If they were able to establish more towns south of the Atlas, these towns and fortifications could strengthen the frontier against Moors, and other desert invaders.

- South of Egypt - Whilst Aksum has some control here - any additional territory that can be controlled and is survivable (i.e. no mass die-off from disease) would shore up the Romans control over the Red Sea

Now if the only requirements of the deal afterwards are to provide soldiers for the armies, and obviously to defend their territories in self-interest, how would the Empire, the Foederati and the areas mentioned evolve?

Also, what other areas could this plan be implemented in?

While the idea of Vandals and Goths in Pictland is a cool idea everything else is stupid.

I'm not calling you stupid, I'm calling any Roman who would let those tribes anywhere near Africa, stupid. You don't lead desperate people to where the good food is and hope they keep their hands to themselves, especially when you dangle it above their heads and send them toward far less appetizing meals. To get to Arabia you have to go through either Egypt or Syria, both are much better places to live and easily richer by miles, they're not going to cling to the coast of some god-forsaken desert when they live like Pharoahs in their own Egyptian Kingdom. Same goes for Carthage and the would-be Maghreb, another breadbasket to easy to pass by for an even bigger desert and the only company to be seen are tribesman who want you out of their land and raiders who want to take theirs. Don't ask a man to be thankful for a few pennies when you're wearing gold and diamonds, not only will he resent you, he will likely try to choke with your own finery.
 
Not really a good idea

Sending barbarians outside Rome would not be good for the Romans. It would practically set up new, rival nations outside of Rome's borders that they would then have to fight.

The only good place to send the barbarians would be the Persian Empire. Either the barbarians set up smaller Kingdoms inside it that could be in Rome's sphere of influence, or the smaller Kingdoms could be more easily fought by Rome, or all the barbarians die and Persia is weakened, so with sending them to Persia it's a win-win-win scenario for Rome.
 
See also: modern immigration.
The third world people are hardly scrabbling to move to northern Sweden where land is practically being given away or a small polish village which is suffering population depletion.
They want to go to the bright lights. To London, berlin, etc....

It was no different in ancient times.
Land wasn't a problem. They wanted the roman lifestyle.
 
The romans did that, e.g. the Numerus Vandalorum in Egypt or the Numerus Sarmatorum in Britannia. Also a lot of Goths fought in Syria. But these have been auxilia as part of a peace-contract. No volunteers, but also no captives. It was a duty based on the contract.

The romans sometimes deported entire tribes, like they deported the hostile Sugambri from the right banks of the Rhine to the left banks, were the legions and the surrounding friendly tribes could control them better. They were not the last smaller tribe, which faced this fortune.

But the romans had not the military power to enforce the big tribes like Alemanni, Franks or the Goths to move anywhere entirely, they don't want to move. The romans were interested in controlling these tribes beyond the border or in the devastated lands near the borders. And not moving 100.000 and more people to the other end of the world. Why should they do that? 100.000 Franks deported to Caledonia would have been pissed off and would immediately start to fight the romans. On the other hand the Franks defended the roman border in Germania Inferior for about 100 years pretty reliably. More reliable than any roman army of these days.
 
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