WI: roman canaries?

The canary islands were never under roman control, but they were close enough to roman Hispanic & Mauritania for control/settlement to be possible. What if the romans conquer the area and use it as a naval base of operations in the atlantic?
Could earlier contact with west africa be possible? Would the Azores be colonised earlier?
What happens to the canarian province after the empire falls (assuming that rome still falls ITL)? I imagine a sort of Roman pirate republic based there, growing immensly wealthy from trade and raiding in africa and western europe. What are your thoughts?
 
There's some potential. Roman sailors occasionally visited the Canaries IOTL so certainly it was within the technical range of their abilities to go there. However, it was probably at the farthest limit of that range. The Canaries are pretty marginal economically as it is, relative to Roman technology and economy, so there's little incentive to pursue settlement and conquest at the extreme edge of the feasible without significant return. It has been suggested before in similar threads that in order to change that, you'd need to find a motive, most easily in the form of a valuable commodity from the Islands that makes their occupation worthwhile. Dyes seem the best bet, as indeed som can be harvested there and then sold in the rest of the Empire for a large profit. This could create also the puch to improve ship designs and general sailing knowledge making the trip easy enough to become routine, which is what you need in order to run the place as a Roman province.
However, there are limits. The Romans have much technological edge over the local proto-Guanche peoples, but the logistics of the conquests are not particularly favorable. There has to be a costly commitment.
 
It is an interesting idea.
As far as I know Eratosthenes knew that the Canaries existed, so I think the Romans may know it too.
I think the biggest problem is convincing them to take the Isles. If there's a Carthaginian base the Senate may pull a Carthago delenda est 2.0, but I really don't see Rome willing keep it after.
Instead of a pirate republic I imagine the isles being "colonized" by hermits and monks.
Now, what is going to be the impact of a Canarian Province on OTL Morocco? I think some emperor may decide to expand southwards 'till to the Atlas mountains, maybe with the aim of controlling the routes between the Mediterranean and the Gulf of Guinea.
The area would be basically a second Britain and would probably be abandoned by Honorius.
In the end if the presence of Canaries' monks helps Christianization of the TTL Morocco we might see the rise of a Berber Kingdom enough isolated to survive both the Vandals and Justinian which could be very interesting in the VII and VIII centuries.
 
Rome will not attack the Canaries unless they conquer the rest of Mauretania south of Volubilis. Along with Germania, this is the best land Rome did not conquer, yet unlike Germania it's bordered by only the Atlas Mountains and the fringe of the Sahara, so there's not much opposition left there. The Anti-Atlas and the Sus River would then be the last frontier for the Romans in North Africa, but unlike other frontiers (like Caledonia), this area has argan oil (could be a nice trade good) and better farmland/grazing land. If we consider Britannia and Dacia, I think a conquest of at least the majority of Mauretania (the capital would be Volubilis, so the province would be "Mauretania Volubilitana") is just as feasible, if not preferable (Britannia tied up several legions for worse land than Mauretania). The Anti-Atlas and further south has the limit of cultivatible land (and thus the limit of any serious threats to Roman North Africa). Unlike Ireland/Hibernia, there's nothing comparable that would require legions to be stationed in the area, at least until the Canaries are enhanced by the volume of Roman trade to be on a level similar to the Irish.

OTL the Canaries were fairly isolated from the Roman Empire. TTL, Roman rule over coastal Morocco will mean there's a lot more trade, and thus Roman interference in politics there (just like in Ireland)

The effects of closer links with or outright Roman conquest of the Canaries could be huge. Bringing in tagasaste, a very nice feed crop native to the Canaries useful in drought-prone areas (like North Africa), will improve the value of North Africa to the Empire. Since holding down "Mauretania Volubilitana" will require more legions, North Africa gains a larger say in the Empire (OTL North Africa only had one legion, and compare Britain's legions and their influence in Roman civil wars). The Canaries themselves could be like Ireland, and be a center of Christianity.

After the Empire falls, I think the Canaries will be on their own, and fragment likewise, although the largest islands will dominate. Their history will be related to Mauretania, which will be part of a Romano-Berber kingdom. TTL, I think it's likely it will be Romanised enough it speaks "Mauretanian Romance" (intermediate between Iberian Romance and African Romance). The Canaries will be like Ireland I think. They'll have a lot of religious scholarship, they might re-Christianise some Berber groups, but they'll be pretty peripheral. This whole thing might cause a development in Canarian seafaring, so Madeira, Cape Verde, and even the Azores might be settled by Canarians (perhaps religious groups, like the Irish in Iceland and the Faroes). In the long-term, I think this area will come under the rule of the Mauretanian state, since they'll be divided enough to be vulnerable to conquest, and likely lead to a Mauretanian seafaring tradition which will allow the Mauretanians to be at the forefront of TTL's Age of Discovery. Of course, the Canarians won't go down so easily, and they'll be a potent source of pirates to the Mauretanians and Iberians for many centuries.

Long term, Canarians and their descendents will be largely assimilated into Mauretanian culture and like OTL Canarians, Madeirans, Cape Verdeans, Azoreans, etc. will be a key group of settlers in Mauretania's colonial ventures, wherever they may be.

There's some potential. Roman sailors occasionally visited the Canaries IOTL so certainly it was within the technical range of their abilities to go there. However, it was probably at the farthest limit of that range. The Canaries are pretty marginal economically as it is, relative to Roman technology and economy, so there's little incentive to pursue settlement and conquest at the extreme edge of the feasible without significant return. It has been suggested before in similar threads that in order to change that, you'd need to find a motive, most easily in the form of a valuable commodity from the Islands that makes their occupation worthwhile. Dyes seem the best bet, as indeed som can be harvested there and then sold in the rest of the Empire for a large profit. This could create also the puch to improve ship designs and general sailing knowledge making the trip easy enough to become routine, which is what you need in order to run the place as a Roman province.
However, there are limits. The Romans have much technological edge over the local proto-Guanche peoples, but the logistics of the conquests are not particularly favorable. There has to be a costly commitment.
Dyes, without a doubt, since that was the attraction of that part of Morocco OTL. Maybe some plant crop like the aforementioned tagasaste.
 
Without sugar plantations or atlantic travel (routes to asia through the cape and america) the islands are kinda useless.
 
The canary islands were never under roman control, but they were close enough to roman Hispanic & Mauritania for control/settlement to be possible. What if the romans conquer the area and use it as a naval base of operations in the atlantic?
Could earlier contact with west africa be possible? Would the Azores be colonised earlier?
What happens to the canarian province after the empire falls (assuming that rome still falls ITL)? I imagine a sort of Roman pirate republic based there, growing immensly wealthy from trade and raiding in africa and western europe. What are your thoughts?
The fate of the Guanche ? They had been practically the Sentinalese of the Atlantic Ocean.
 
I just imagined canary birds wearing legionary helmets. Silly me.

Anyway, i think Roman control over the Canary Islands would be a logical addition to a Western Empire that decides to expand overseas. Supposing that the PoD is after the formation of the Eastern Empire, it is not implausible to assume that both halves of the Roman world would end up hostile to each other -- i could see the Western Empire seeking colonies in the Americas and trade routes around Africa to bypass Constantinople's monopolies on trade.
 
Maybe the Romans establish a penal colony on the Canary Islands? Maybe the Senate exiles one of the weirder Emperors to the Canaries and it becomes the traditional punishment for high profile political prisoners.
 
The canary islands were never under roman control, but they were close enough to roman Hispanic & Mauritania for control/settlement to be possible. What if the romans conquer the area and use it as a naval base of operations in the atlantic?
Could earlier contact with west africa be possible? Would the Azores be colonised earlier?
What happens to the canarian province after the empire falls (assuming that rome still falls ITL)? I imagine a sort of Roman pirate republic based there, growing immensly wealthy from trade and raiding in africa and western europe. What are your thoughts?
Guanche slaves in Rome probably.
 

jocay

Banned
The canary islands were never under roman control, but they were close enough to roman Hispanic & Mauritania for control/settlement to be possible. What if the romans conquer the area and use it as a naval base of operations in the atlantic?
Could earlier contact with west africa be possible? Would the Azores be colonised earlier?
What happens to the canarian province after the empire falls (assuming that rome still falls ITL)? I imagine a sort of Roman pirate republic based there, growing immensly wealthy from trade and raiding in africa and western europe. What are your thoughts?

Well yes, a Roman Canaries (Canaria???) would be a good spot for a naval base. Not that there would be much reason to have a strong naval presence; not like the Berbers or West Africans are going to mount much opposition to merit one. But nothing like an additional province to extract manpower and wealth, even if it's minimal, to the Roman war machine. One could expect the other Macaronesian islands (Azores, Cape Verde, Madeira) to be discovered and colonized by the Romanized Canarians down the road.

Assuming things proceed more or less the same, the Canaries and by extension the other islands are far enough and unimportant enough to be left to their own devices by the Empire. The necessity for a strong navy to ward off barbarian raids and later attempts at conquest would incentivize the head military commander, referred to as either dux or comes, to usurp political authority. Of course this Canarian commander would officially defer to the Emperor and this title may not even be hereditary in the beginning; in theory being passed along top members of the officer corps. Think Venice's relationship with Byzantium.

Either Roman imperial authority in the west collapses or the Canarians decide that the Empire is no longer worth paying any heed to and declare independence. The Canarians are well positioned to serve as middlemen between western Europe and Africa. Perhaps around this time is when Christian missionaries start to appear.
 
Maybe the Romans establish a penal colony on the Canary Islands? Maybe the Senate exiles one of the weirder Emperors to the Canaries and it becomes the traditional punishment for high profile political prisoners.

Or deport the Jews there after 70AD? A sort of early Madagascar Plan?
 
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