WI Roger Mortimer Becomes King Roger I

Roger Mortimer was the grandson if Lionel of Antwerp, Edward III's second son. Given that Richard II was childless, Mortimer was heir presumptive. However, before Bolingbroke's usurpation, Mortimer was killed at Kenlis in Ireland. What if he survived? Could he defeat the Lancasters and found the Mortimer dynasty? Would the House of York still ascend to the throne? What would be Mortimer's policies with France? What if?
 
He wasn't heir presumptive. He was already out of favour and ranked below all of the royal dukes. Richard gave him the impossible task of going against his own uncle (Thomas Mortimer, I think?) and made anyone who helped said uncle a criminal. The Ireland job seems to have been a pretty suicidal thing too. Mortimer had popular support but the law was on the side of the Lancastrians, who Richard was considering sweeping away in favor of his uncle Edmund of Langley (who historically gave way to Bolingbroke and would most likely do the same here).

His ascension would also mean the end of claims to France, since he was claiming England by strict primogeniture, while the claim to France was based on the arguments of representation etc that has been discussed in threads similar to this one the last few days. Strict primogeniture leaves the French throne exclusively to the Navaresse.
 
His ascension would also mean the end of claims to France, since he was claiming England by strict primogeniture, while the claim to France was based on the arguments of representation etc that has been discussed in threads similar to this one the last few days. Strict primogeniture leaves the French throne exclusively to the Navaresse.

I'm not sure how that works. If anything, the Mortimer claim to England and France was stronger than the Lancastrian one.

My idea is Roger survives and Bolingbroke still usurps the throne. Mortimer returns with an army and takes the throne...
 
I'm not sure how that works. If anything, the Mortimer claim to England and France was stronger than the Lancastrian one.

My idea is Roger survives and Bolingbroke still usurps the throne. Mortimer returns with an army and takes the throne...

What he means is that Roger claimed the throne based on the basis of the idea that women couldn't inherit, or pass their claims to their children. Edward III originally claimed the throne of France based on the fact that he was grandson through the female line of the previous King (can't be bothered looking the name up right now, apologies). If Mortimer institutes Salic Law, he can hardly then complain if Salic Law rules him out of contention for the throne of France.
 
What he means is that Roger claimed the throne based on the basis of the idea that women couldn't inherit, or pass their claims to their children. Edward III originally claimed the throne of France based on the fact that he was grandson through the female line of the previous King (can't be bothered looking the name up right now, apologies). If Mortimer institutes Salic Law, he can hardly then complain if Salic Law rules him out of contention for the throne of France.
I don't understand what you mean. Mortimer's claim relies on his mother being the most senior descendant of Edward III. Belittling female inheritance only strengthens Lancaster's position in the English succession.
 
I don't understand what you mean. Mortimer's claim relies on his mother being the most senior descendant of Edward III. Belittling female inheritance only strengthens Lancaster's position in the English succession.

What don't you get by that? The Lancastrian and English claim to France came from the female line. If they say that female succession won't fly in England they it damages their claim in France.
 
No reason to do what?? Claim France? Of course he will. Its tradition and at this point the English did control Aquitaine still so they could try to continue the Hundred years war again.

I believe he's saying that Mortimer would have no reason to institute (French) Salic Law because it negates his claim to England first since that claim is through his mother - ie what you said
 
I agree with Pericles, Mortimer would have a much better and less hypocritical claim to France than the Lancastrians, not only due to his ancestry but because unlike the Lancastrians who claimed the throne over the Mortimers on the basis of Agnatic Primogeniture (i.e. Salic Law, no inheritance through the female) King Roger would have had to denounce Salic Law in order to succeed.
 
Do you think the Mortimer line would survive? I think Roger would live till about the time of OTL Henry IV's death, though maybe that's too long. Edmund Mortimer would be grown up to become King.
 
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