WI Roderic and Achila REALLY ally themselves against islamic invasion

MNPundit said:
You're probably still going to have a lot of revolts in Al-Andalus, nothing is changing the dynamics there that I can tell unless you get a really brutal/strong governor. So I think the best bet is to somehow co-opt whoever ends up as Wali in Zaragoza. As to how that might be, I have no clue with a PoD during the conquest itself. I'd be pretty amused to see the Cassius ruling Zaragoza as Christians for instance.

Maybe Abu Tawr could rules a sucessful rebellion, takes a part of Ebro valley and pledge alliegence to Kingdom of Narbo, the relative regional strength of this kingdom could led Charlemagne to ally hiself to Abu Tawr, making Narbo his "Spanish Marche", pushing its borders in the high valley of Ebro

Of course, with a sucessfuk Ben uasi, or Cassius, changment of alligence, Kingdom of Narbo would likely give up certains territories in ebro valley, in this control, to give to Cassius.

With a Ben Qasi failure, Abd El Rahman would prefer arabo-berberian dynasties to rule north-eastern Al-Andalus, so no Musa II "third king of Spain"
 
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If someone can help me to find places and names for "Visigothic lords" as Cassius or Theudimir?

Thanks
 
For my timeline, how this situation is Plausible?

http://i.imgur.com/KhPmS.jpg
Brittania : As OTL
Hispania : Kingdom of Ovideo, Kingdom of Narbo, Duchy of Vascony
Gaul and Italy : Kingdom of Aquitaine, Western Frankish Kingdom (forming HRE), Papal States, Spoletto, Benevent, Bari
Germany : Kingdom of Bavaria, Eastern Frankish Kingdom
East : Morabia
 
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Valdemar II

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For my timeline, how this situation is Plausible?

Brittania : As OTL
Hispania : Kingdom of Ovideo, Kingdom of Narbo, Duchy of Vascony
Gaul and Italy : Kingdom of Aquitaine, Western Frankish Kingdom (forming HRE), Papal States, Spoletto, Benevent, Bari
Germany : Kingdom of Bavaria, Eastern Frankish Kingdom
East : Morabia

Yes through, if you want to make it somewhat stable, it may be a good idea to trade the East Frankish Kingdom for Italy. Through that would remove some of the point with Imperial throne.

So what about this
Lothair gain Italy, and the entire Burgundy plus the Imperial title
Louis/Ludwig gain East and West Frankia including what would later in OTL become Lotharingen
Pepin gain Aquitaine
While Charles/Karl gain Bavaria and Swabia.

While not entirely fair, it give Lothair the richest territories, the next brother the next best and it continue so until the youngest brother.
 
In fact, it's the situation after Merseen and Ribemont-like treaties

Verdun-Like
Pippin : Aquitaine + Burgondy + theorical authority on Hispania
Charles : Neustria + Frise + Austrasia
Ludwig : Saxe + Francony + Swabia + Bavaria
Lothar : Lombardia + Frioul + Carinthia + Benevent + Imperial title

Lothar have better territories, but as they are too many opponents, no one can endure perpetual war and differents alliances. So his brothers just wait Lothar's sons blow up his part.
Pippin have a prosperous territory, but rebellious too, in fact 1/3 of his part avoid his rule. (Hispania, Gascony,
Charles, thanks to his father support (at his death) keeps the heart of fraknish empire
Ludwig have forces, many support in noblity, but his brother didn't want to make him too powerful, so Germania

Merseen-like
Pipin II : Aquitaine + 1/4 of Burgondy
Charles : Neustria + Austrasia + Northen Burgondy
Ludwig : Saxe + Francony + Swabia + Bavaria + Carinthia
Lothar II : Southern Burgondy + Lombardia + Frioul + Theorical authority on Benevent

Lothar dies, parting his kingdom in two (Carinthia/Frioul / Lombardia + italy) but the war between his sons make carolingians follow this exemple. Pippin II, allied with Karl, loose, and lost most of Burgondy.
Ludwig takes Carinthia, Charles Northen Burgondy, but loose Frise (to Ludwig)
Lothar II became the one ruler in Italia

Ribemont-like
Pippin II : Aquitaine + 1/2 of Burgondy
Charles's sucessor : Neustria + Frise + Austrasia + 1/2 of Burgondy + Lombardia + Frioul
Ludwig's sucessor : Saxony + Franconia + Swabia
Bosson (proclamed himself king) : Bavaria + Carinthia

Lothar II died, and Charles became emperor, taking all his kingdom, without Frioul and a part of Burgondy.
War in Germany, and, Bosson declares himself king of Bavaria, Ludwig sucessor having : Frise + Saxony + Francony + Swabia + Frioul

Future planned :
Aquitaine : Became a little kingdom, without any great hope of expension in Europe, maybe in Peninsula, and will be more or less linked to HRE

HRE : (1)More Western centered, and very soon spilted in many states. Carolingian dynasty periclites, and because of it, of norman attacks and situation, Francia Avoid HRE rule and became independent with a Robertian -like dynasty.
HRE survives in Italy, in a very very formal way, having Aquitaine, Italy, Bavaria, but not very more, until an Otto-like dynasty (maybe Toscan)
(2) Surviving HRE in Francia and Italia, more decentralized than OTL. more possibilities for italians to avoid imperial authority, and micro-states in Switzerland and Alsace. In France, Robertians are powerful, but they are just one of the 4/5 greats lords in the country.


Germania became a strong kingdom, controlling northen tradeway

Maybe it's more logical in this way?

Map in 890

OVRTb.jpg
 
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