WI Rock Music Develops Earlier?

[ennobee]

As the actual question was "What If", my thoughts would center more on how much the rock scene has been influenced by the previous generation of musicians as well as the current sociological and political environment of the time it lived in. So let's say electric guitars, amps and other gear were available in the 1930's, and there were already bands playing what one would call 'rock music'. I guess Woody Guthry and the likes would have discovered the music and 'this land is your land' would now be more like 'If I had a hammer' or even a power ballad today mostly known for its BonJovi cover version. But without the rise of teenage culture and record technology, could someone like Elvis' elder cousin stake his claim against Frank Sinatra or even Glenn Miller?
My own guess is that there are too many unknowns. Even if you would magically both transport punkrock and heavy metal 15 years back to the time of the Vietnam war, there is no guarantee that you would have grunge in 1977 instead of 1992. Yes , there would be some new kind of music in '77 but without the feeling of a generation X, it would be just as far from OTL's grungerock as it would be from OTL's 1977 Queen.

 

[Ed Costello]

The development of rock is as much about technology as it is musical tastes. Electric guitars had been around in various forms since the 1930s (or possibly before, depending on whether you count acoustic guitars modded with various homebrew forms of amplification), but the first commercially successful electric guitars were normally steel guitars because the pickups used enormous magnets that wrapped round the top of the strings, making conventional playing nigh-impossible. It took until 1940 for somebody to build a conventional guitar that wasn't susceptible to uncontrolled feedback, and another ten years to design one that could be mass-produced cheaply enough to be viable – by which time WWII was over and young Americans were now prosperous enough to spend money on musical instruments.

You can't really accelerate that schedule by much; the innovators in guitar design – Les Paul, Paul Bigsby, Leo Fender – were spread across the country and working in different musical scenes (Fender wasn't even a musician!), so it's hard to think of a way to get their innovations together faster. Perhaps if you could avoid WWII and all the dislocations that came with it things might proceed faster, but it's unlikely the economic situation would allow for the success of a mass-produced electric guitar such as we saw in OTL's 1950s. So you need to then avoid the Great Depression… but by that point you start causing big changes to the kind of roots music that rock grew out of, so you essentially end up with something less recognisable as 'rock' as we understand it.

Not saying it can't be done, though – for starters, a form of *rock which develops out of steel guitar music would be fascinating.

 

[marathag]

Not saying it can't be done, though – for starters, a form of *rock which develops out of steel guitar music would be fascinating.

You had those, and the Hammond B3 Organ in the late '30s, add a drumset, and you could do a lot of late '60s Rock, if the inspiration was there

 

[merlin]

At a minimum, it leads to wider exposure of black musicians (& music) to white audiences (if only by "blanched" covers, per Perry Como, or The Stones).

The mind boggles of even just the thought of Perry Como singing Blues music!! Even Cliff Richard and the Shadows never featured into it. The Stones did OTL bring the Blues to a white audience - confused the compere on the ED Sullivan Show when asked about their influences - said "Lightning Hopkins" -

- the answer gave way to blank looks and I think the question of 'what's that'!

 

[phx1138]

let's say electric guitars, amps and other gear were available in the 1930's, and there were already bands playing what one would call 'rock music'. I guess Woody Guthry and the likes would have discovered the music and 'this land is your land' would now be more like 'If I had a hammer' or even a power ballad today mostly known for its BonJovi cover version. But without the rise of teenage culture and record technology, could someone like Elvis' elder cousin stake his claim against Frank Sinatra or even Glenn Miller?

IMO, you'd get "minor" stars, who'd be known to fans of the music, but probably not to the general public, much as in blues or jazz OTL, unless somebody scored a big pop hit.

How many OTL blues/jazz musicians get drawn into this new form? Does it mean, frex, Brubeck does R&R? That "Take 5" is a pioneer rock record?

Does it also mean, frex, Hank Williams does rockabilly? Do Flatt & Scruggs? Bill Monroe & The Bluegrass Boys? Don't forget, there was a lot less segregation of musical styles (musically, not racially) in the '30s & '40s than now...

My own guess is that there are too many unknowns. Even if you would magically both transport punkrock and heavy metal 15 years back to the time of the Vietnam war, there is no guarantee that you would have grunge in 1977 instead of 1992. Yes , there would be some new kind of music in '77 but without the feeling of a generation X, it would be just as far from OTL's grungerock as it would be from OTL's 1977 Queen.

That's very likely. Given a different starting point, & different players in "starring" roles, in the '40s & '50s, you're bound to end up with very different styles even in the '60s, never mind later. Just frex, having *Buddy Holly in the '30s means The Stones (presuming they happen on OTL schedule) are covering something akin to "That'll be the Day" instead of something by Muddy Waters, for their first record (& sounding like a harder Linda Ronstadt verision?).

Beyond that, it's likely you've butterflied away at least some musicians' careers entire, & created new stars who didn't exist OTL.

The mind boggles of even just the thought of Perry Como singing Blues music!

It may've been Pat Boone I was thinking of... Even so, a bit of boggling is in order.

 

[Corjomc]

It was Mae West who brought them together.

West was looking to include the new form of music in her 1935 movie 'Goin' to Town"

Paul Robeson had just returned from filming Sanders of the River in London and was looking for more film work

Louis Armstrong was the next musician to come on board

West heard "Riffin the Scotch" and she tracked down Billy Holiday, an up and coming talent

The final piece was of course the one who would come to be known as the 'Electric Devil'

When they put one of the early electric guitars in Robert Johnson's hands he took off

West called the group the 'Tapwater Quartet' in her movie

The Rock & Roll band performed two songs in the movie

One a Rock version of Riffin; on the Scotch and an original

'Hard Night in Georgia' was written by West and the Band

Both songs were a huge success

Robeson had them drop the Quartet from their name after the movie.

Robeson, Holiday, Armstrong, and Johnson wrote 4 new songs and rewrote 4 old ones and went on tour

Tapwater's first album released in 1936 was titled "Thunder"

Of course Johnson's death early on, and a nasty love triangle mixed with drugs and alcohol and the red scare would eventually bring about an end to the band but they had a great run

 

[ennobee]

It was Mae West who brought them together....
...Of course Johnson's death early on, and a nasty love triangle mixed with drugs and alcohol and the red scare would eventually bring about an end to the band but they had a great run

Please expand that into an AH timeline

 

[Finn Morgendorffer]

Please expand that into an AH timeline

Yeah, not to add any pressure, but I would read more of that. I particularly love Mae serving as "midwife" for rock n' roll.

 

[Arkenfolm]

If you had rock and roll at such an early point, what would happen with jazz? Would you eventually end up with jazz fusion much earlier? And on the rock side, the jazzier side of progressive rock/avant-prog sort of stuff? Miles Davis starts out doing jazz fusion in the early 50s?

 

[Corjomc]

1935
Paul Robeson, Louis Armstrong, Robert Johnson, and Billie Holiday appear in Mae West's "Goin' to Town" as the Tapwater Quartet

Performing a Rock version of "Riffin' on the Scotch" and a new song written by West and the band called "A Hard Night in Georgia".

Their appearance was a great success in America and abroad.

1936
The Band drops Quartet from the name and write 4 new songs and re-write 4 old songs and go on tour.

By the end of the year Tapwater releases their first album, "Thunder"

1937
The band goes on a nationwide tour in support of the album.

1938
Big Sid Catlett becomes Tapwater's permanent drummer
The band releases it's second album, "Lightning".
South American and European tour

1939
Band is in Warsaw when World War II starts

Robert Johnson killed in a Harlem Alleyway on Christmas Eve. Was it gambling debts? Was it Bumpy Johnson because he was dating his girl at the time Nattie Hollande? Was it a mugging gone bad?

1940
Chester Arthur Burnett replaces Robert Johnson. He is nicknamed "Dracula" (Son of the Devil) by Johnson fans

Tapwater's third release is titled "The Calm"

North American Tour

1941
Germany invades the Soviet Union. Robeson pens "Let's Hang Hitler" which becomes a popular wartime restrain.

Billie Holiday and Chester Burnett get married

After Pear Harbor "And Hirohito to." is added to the wartime song.

1942
Release of "The Storm"

Tapwater goes on a USO tour.

1943
Concerts in Allied countries and to sell war bonds

May Day Concert in Moscow

1944
Billie gives birth to William Holiday Burnett

Cotton Club Singer Lena Horne fills in for Holiday

1945
The Victory Concert takes place in Harlem

1946
The band's only Live album from the Harlem concert is released "Victory"

Holiday begins affair with Armstrong

1947
Robeson and Armstrong argue over politics
After a concert in Buffalo the affair goes public. Holiday and Burnett are divorced.
Tapwater folds

1948
Tapwater is reunited by the HUAC and goes on the stand

1949
The band's final album "Americans" is released to help pay their legal fees. It is blacklisted in America but goes on to record sales outside the United States

1965
Billy Burnett, Lena Horne, and Louis Armstrong perform at a charity concert as the Tapwater Trio