WI: Richard II survives longer in captivity

[Euphemios]

Historically, after Henry IV's accession, a group of malcontents would revolt in what would be called the Epiphany Rising, intending to rethrone Richard, and killing Henry, King and Prince both, if not for their abject failure to locate either.
Richard would die some weeks later, reportedly having starved to death in his cell.
Now, what if he had been fed properly, or if the story was a fabrication after all, had not perished from whatever illness may have struck him?
Do we see more risings of the sort later? Do any actually manage to depose Henry IV? What do the butterflies imply in the long term?

 

[ordinarylittleme]

If they can't locate Henry, how are they going to depose him?

 

[Viking25]

If they can't locate Henry, how are they going to depose him?

I guess with the extra window of time they somehow manage to find him?

 

[Deleted member 147978]

How long would Bolingbroke or Monmouth hold Richard captive? Has long has he's still alive, execpt another conspiracy / rebellion in attempting to restore him.

 

[30PrincesAndAKing]

I think if you want him to live longer, you probably need to get him out of captivity ASAP. Given how, ahem, insecure Medieval English jails could be at times, it's not an impossible task.

Maybe some person manages to actually spring him, but isn't well connected enough to actually make good of it, and decides to ensconce Richard to Scotland under the protection of Albany?

 

[ordinarylittleme]

I think if you want him to live longer, you probably need to get him out of captivity ASAP. Given how, ahem, insecure Medieval English jails could be at times, it's not an impossible task.

Maybe some person manages to actually spring him, but isn't well connected enough to actually make good of it, and decides to ensconce Richard to Scotland under the protection of Albany?

And what good does an exiled king in Scotland do?

 

[material_boy]

Counterintuitively, this may provide for a more secure Lancastrian regime. Glyndwr will still rise up, but the Percys aren't going to rebel to reinstall Richard -- Northumberland saw firsthand what Richard did to the Lords Appellant after a decade of playing nice, and would know that Richard would eventually destroy the entire Percy clan if he were allowed to return to the throne.

Richard's only chance at returning to power after January 6, 1400, was through French invasion -- and literally nothing would unite the country behind Henry IV more than a common enemy landing on English shores.

I guess with the extra window of time they somehow manage to find him?

Doesn't matter how much extra window they get -- the Ricardians are all dead before Richard is.

 

[30PrincesAndAKing]

And what good does an exiled king in Scotland do?

Nothing, which is basically the same thing he'd do if he were still imprisoned but not dead. It's just that I see his chances of remaining imprisoned being unfathomably low (somewhere in the 0.0001% range) whereas his chances of seeing survival by being smuggled to Scotland are marginally higher (but still, like, only 0.001% this time).

Note that there was a Richard II imposter living in Scotland OTL (that's where I got the idea), so presumably Albany would be game for the real thing. Nothing would come of it, in any case. Richard II may become slightly more popular in England once nobody has to put up with him anymore, but probably not enough to net him a restoration.

What you'd more likely see is Henry IV offering a concession to Albany (perhaps James I is 'conveniently' done away with) in favour of handing over Richard back into Lancastrian custody, where he dies at a later date.

 

[material_boy]

Nothing, which is basically the same thing he'd do if he were still imprisoned but not dead. It's just that I see his chances of remaining imprisoned being unfathomably low (somewhere in the 0.0001% range) whereas his chances of seeing survival by being smuggled to Scotland are marginally higher (but still, like, only 0.001% this time).

Note that there was a Richard II imposter living in Scotland OTL (that's where I got the idea), so presumably Albany would be game for the real thing. Nothing would come of it, in any case. Richard II may become slightly more popular in England once nobody has to put up with him anymore, but probably not enough to net him a restoration.

What you'd more likely see is Henry IV offering a concession to Albany (perhaps James I is 'conveniently' done away with) in favour of handing over Richard back into Lancastrian custody, where he dies at a later date.

I don't think Albany would have allowed the pretender plot to go on under his "reign," considering Henry had a real king of Scots in his custody. The pretender "Richard" lived until 1419, but the farce was exposed and discredited long before this with the arrest of William Serle in 1404. From that point forward, the Scottish "Richard" was a nonentity. This is important since it occurs about two years before James's shipwreck and Albany's takeover of Scotland.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Nothing, which is basically the same thing he'd do if he were still imprisoned but not dead. It's just that I see his chances of remaining imprisoned being unfathomably low (somewhere in the 0.0001% range) whereas his chances of seeing survival by being smuggled to Scotland are marginally higher (but still, like, only 0.001% this time).

Note that there was a Richard II imposter living in Scotland OTL (that's where I got the idea), so presumably Albany would be game for the real thing. Nothing would come of it, in any case. Richard II may become slightly more popular in England once nobody has to put up with him anymore, but probably not enough to net him a restoration.

What you'd more likely see is Henry IV offering a concession to Albany (perhaps James I is 'conveniently' done away with) in favour of handing over Richard back into Lancastrian custody, where he dies at a later date.

Richard back in Lancastrian custody...yeesh, the poor man...no he's not going to be restored because there was a reason he was deposed, to be honest. Albany won't risk himself like that for Richard, he's not stupid