WI: Richard II and Anne of Bohemia have children?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Emperor Constantine, Nov 29, 2015.

  1. Kynan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Revisions and Additions:

    Richard II of England (b.1367: d.1403) m. Anne of Bohemia (b.1366: d.1394) (a), Mary of Burgundy (b.1386) (b)
    1a) Edward IV of England (b.1383) m. Isabella of Valois (b.1389) (a)
    1a) John II of England (b.1403) m. Jacqueline, Countess of Hainaut (b.1401: d.1436) (a) *annulled in 1432*, Bonne of Savoy (b.1415) (b)
    1a) Margaret of England, 2nd Countess of Hainaut (b.1420) *not created illegitimate after parent's annulment

    2a) John of England (b.1421: d.1421)

    3b) Richard III of England (b.1435)

    4b) Henry of England, Duke of Bedford (b.1438)

    6b) Lionel of England, Duke of Gloucester (b.1441)

    7b) Thomas of England, Duke of Kent (b.1444)

    8b) Edward of England (b.1450: d.1452)
    2a) Thomas of England (b.1404: d.1404)

    3a) Blanche of England (b.1408)

    4a) George of England (b.1410: d.1411)

    5a) Joan of England (b.1413) Philip the Good, Duke of Burgundy (b.1396: d.1467) (a)
    1a) Anthony, Count of Charolais (b.1431)

    2a) Charles of Burgundy (b.1434)

    3a) Louis of Burgundy (b.1437)

    4a) John of Burgundy (b.1438: d.1441)

    5a) Michelle of Burgundy (b.1442)

    6a) Thomas of Burgundy (b.1447: d.1454)
    6a) Isabella of England (b.1417: d.1417)

    2a) Isabella of England (b.1385) m. Ferdinand I of Aragon (b.1380: d.1421) (a)
    1a) Alfonso of Aragon (b.1400)

    2a) John of Aragon (b.1402)

    3a) Eleanor of Aragon (b.1405)

    4a) Peter of Aragon (b.1409)

    5a) Sancho of Aragon (b.1412: d.1414)

    6a) Henry of Aragon (b.1414)

    7a) Maria of Aragon (b.1417)

    8a) Beatrice of Aragon (b.1420)


    3a) John of England, Duke of Clarence (b.1389) m. Marie of Brittan (b.1391) (a)
    1a) Joan of Clarence (b.1412)

    2a) Catherine of Clarence (b.1414)

    3a) Matilda of Clarence (b.1415)

    4a) Henry of Clarence (b.1418)


    4a) Thomas of England (b.1392: d.1393)

    5b) Mary of England (b.1401) m. Henry, 3rd Duke of Lancaster (b.1386: d.1424) (a) Charles, 2nd Duke of Orleans (b.1394) (b)
    1a) Henry, 4th Duke of Lancaster (b.1414)

    2a) Edward of Lancaster (b.1419)

    3a) Margaret of Lancaster (b.1423: d.1424)

    4b) Louis, 3rd Duke of Orleans (b.1427)

    5b) Joan of Orleans (b.1430)

    6b) Marie of Orleans (b.1432)

    7b) Charles of Orleans (b.1435: d.1436)
    I still think that, under the circumstances and the fact that every other option is quite a bit younger than her, Isabella (b.1385) would be a good match for Ferdinand I of Aragon.

    I also pushed the revolt a couple years forward and married Richard off a second time, which I sort of felt would happen. Yes, he has two sons but he would still want more spares if they could be found. And Mary of Burgundy would fit if he wanted a young bride to help with France without marrying a child and I'm surprised it wasn't considered OTL. And by doing this we can get a second daughter more suitable to marry to Orleans.
     
  2. V-J Increased Duty On Wives

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2007
    Location:
    Norþanhymbra
    Although there's not an exact parallel with Henry VI, your soft spot towards Richard is showing here more than a tad.

    As said at the start of the thread by jb3, things are likely to come to a head sooner or later just as per OTL, and Richard is probably going to be deposed as per OTL, but there's no chance of an outsider taking the throne if Richard has a direct heir - if it happens, it'll be deposition in favour of his son, as per Edward II. Indeed, depending on how much longer events take to play out, it could be precisely the son in question that takes up the mantle of the opposition - a revival of a very old Plantagenet tradition.
     
  3. The Professor Pontif of the Guild

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Location:
    Republic of Beerhaven
    I'll also add that with Richard having a living heir that can't be conflated as Bolingbroke then Henry will only attempt to reclaim his duchy. If he waits until junior is close to of-age then he can offer junior his support to "usurp" his father on condition he gets his inheritance plus a role in government
     
  4. AlanJWhite frequent reader, occasional poster, never author

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire, UK
    Actually not 50-50 male-female

    Even today with better health for both male & female
    far more males are conceived than female
    and although more males are aborted or still born
    more males are born than females
    though again more males die in infancy than female

    Its not until the dangers of pregnancy kick in that the death rate due to biology for females is higher than for men.
    However the overall death rate for males (including accidents etc) is still far higher...

    which is why average life expectancy for females is greater
    leading to many more older women than older men.

    In the middle ages pregnancy was far more dangerous of course
    but so was ordinary life for the male.
     
  5. Kynan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Revisions and Additions no. 2:

    Richard II of England (b.1367: d.1403) m. Anne of Bohemia (b.1366: d.1394) (a), Mary of Burgundy (b.1386) (b)
    1a) Edward IV of England (b.1383: d.1419) m. Isabella of Valois (b.1389) (a)
    1a) John II of England (b.1403: d.1462) m. Jacqueline, Countess of Hainaut (b.1401: d.1436) (a) *annulled in 1432*, Bonne of Savoy (b.1415) (b)
    1a) Margaret of England, 2nd Countess of Hainaut (b.1420: d.1537) *not created illegitimate after parent's annulment m. Frederick III, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1415) (a)
    1a) Ernest of Austria (b.1435: d.1438)

    2a) Miscarriage (c.1436)

    3a) Frederick of Austria (b.1437: d.1440)
    2a) John of England (b.1421: d.1421)

    3b) Richard III of England (b.1435: d.1464) m. Joan of Portugal (b.1439: d.1482) (a)
    1a) Stillborn Girl (b.1455: d.1455)

    2a) Richard IV of England (b.1458: d.1469)

    3a) Isabella of England (b.1460)

    4a) Miscarriage (c.1461)

    5a) Miscarriage (c.1463)
    4b) Henry of England, Duke of Bedford (b.1438: d.1462) m. Margaret of Bourbon (b.1439) (a)
    1a) Miscarriage (c.1459)

    2a) John of Bedford (b.1461)
    6b) Lionel of England, Duke of Gloucester (b.1441: d.1500) m. Pauline de Brosse (b.1449) (a)
    1a) Jacqueline of Gloucester (b.1466)

    2a) Philip, Duke of Gloucester (b.1469)

    3a) Nicole of Gloucester (b.1471)

    4a) Stillborn Girl (b.1472: d.1472)

    5a) John of Gloucester (b.1475: d.1478)
    7b) Thomas of England, Duke of Kent (b.1444: d.1512) m. Joanna of Portugal (b.1452: d.1490) (a), Anne Parr (b.1474: d.1511) (b)
    1a) Miscarriage (c.1498)
    8b) Edward of England (b.1450: d.1452)

    2a) Thomas of England (b.1404: d.1404)

    3a) Blanche of England (b.1408) m. James I of Scotland (b.1394) (a)
    1a) Mary Stewart (b.1429: d.1444) m. Louis XI of France (b.1423) (a)
    1a) Anne of France (b.1444: d.1449)
    2a) Joan Stewart (b.1430) m. Francis I of Brittany (b.1414: d.1450) (a)
    1a) Marie of Brittany (b.1448)

    2a) Francis II, Duke of Brittany (b.1449)

    3a) Miscarriage (c.1450)
    3a) Isabella Stewart (b.1433: d.1433)

    4a) Robert Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (b.1434: d.1436)

    5a) Eleanor Stewart (b.1435) m. James Douglas, Earl of Morton (b.1426) (a)
    1a) Joan Douglas (b.1456)

    2a) James Douglas, Earl of Morton (b.1458)

    3a) Mary Stewart (b.1461: d.1562)

    4a) Stillborn Boy (b.1464: d.1464)

    5a) Isabella Douglas (b.1468)
    6a) Stillborn Boy (b.1437: d.1437)

    7a) Annabella Stewart (b.1439: d.1488) m. Sigismund, Archduke of Austria (b.1427: d.1496) (a)

    8a) James II of Scotland (b.1442) m. Margaret of Foix (b.1449) (a)
    1a) James III of Scotland (b.1470)

    2a) David Stewart, Duke of Albany (b.1473)

    3a) Elizabeth Stewart (b.1476)

    4a) John Stewart, Earl of Moray (b.1480)
    9a) Margaret Stewart (b.1445: d.1445)
    4a) George of England (b.1410: d.1411)

    5a) Joan of England (b.1413: d.1478) Philip the Good, Duke of Burgundy (b.1396: d.1467) (a)
    1a) Anthony, Duke of Burgundy(b.1431: d.1489) m. Mary of Guelders (b.1434: d.1470) (a)
    1a) John of Burgundy (b.1460: d.1477)

    2a) Philip of Burgundy (b.1464: d.1467)

    3a) Stillborn Girl (b.1468: d.1468)

    4a) Stillborn Boy (b.1470: d.1470)
    2a) Charles of Burgundy (b.1434: d.1484) m. Catherine of Portugal (b.1434: d.1463) (a)
    1a) John, Duke of Burgundy (b.1460)
    3a) Louis of Burgundy (b.1437: d.1490)

    4a) John of Burgundy (b.1438: d.1441)

    5a) Michelle of Burgundy (b.1442: d.1455) m. Gaston, Prince of Viana (b.1444)

    6a) Thomas of Burgundy (b.1447: d.1454)
    6a) Isabella of England (b.1417: d.1417)

    2a) Isabella of England (b.1385) m. Ferdinand I of Aragon (b.1380: d.1421) (a)
    1a) Alfonso of Aragon (b.1400: d.1435)
    m. Blanche I of Navarre (b.1387: d.1441) (a)
    1a) John II of Aragon and Navarre (b.1419: d.1454) m. Agnes of Cleves (b.1422: d.1468)

    2a) Eleanor of Aragon (b.1421) m. John III of Aragon and Navarre (b.1402: d.1459) (a)
    1a) John IV of Aragon and Navarre (b.1444)

    2a) Blanche of Aragon (b.1448)

    3a) Charles of Aragon (b.1452: d.1453)

    4a) Stillborn Boy (b.1458: d.1458)

    5a) Eleanor of Aragon (b.1463: d.1464)
    3a) Blanche of Aragon (b.1423: d.1430)
    2a) John III of Aragon and Navarre (b.1402: d.1459) m. Eleanor of Aragon (b.1421) (a)
    1a) John IV of Aragon and Navarre (b.1444)

    2a) Blanche of Aragon (b.1448)

    3a) Charles of Aragon (b.1452: d.1453)

    4a) Stillborn Boy (b.1458: d.1458)

    5a) Eleanor of Aragon (b.1463: d.1464)
    3a) Eleanor of Aragon (b.1405: d.1473)

    4a) Peter of Aragon (b.1409: d.1412)

    5a) Sancho of Aragon (b.1412: d.1414)

    6a) Henry of Aragon (b.1414: d.1458) m. Agnes of Cleves (b.1422: d.1468)

    7a) Maria of Aragon (b.1417: d.1478)

    8a) Beatrice of Aragon (b.1420: d.1450) m. Henry IV of Castile (b.1427: d.1474) (a)
    3a) John of England, Duke of Clarence (b.1389: d.1419) m. Marie of Brittany (b.1391: d.1440) (a)
    1a) Joan of Clarence (b.1412: d.1487) m. John II of Castile (b.1405: d.1454) (a)
    1a) Henry IV of Castile (b.1427: d.1474) m. Beatrice of Aragon (b.1420: d.1450) (a)

    2a) John III of Castile (b.1428: d.1480) m. Juana Enríquez (b.1425: d.1468) (a)
    1a) Joanna of Castile (b.1452)

    2a) Henry V of Castile (b.1458)
    2a) Catherine of Clarence (b.1414: d.1490)

    3a) Matilda of Clarence (b.1415: d.1431)

    4a) Henry, Duke of Clarence (b.1418) m. Margaret of Anjou (b.1430: d.1482) (a)
    1a) Edward, Duke of Clarence (b.1455: d.1478)

    2a) Miscarriage (c.1459)
    4a) Thomas of England (b.1392: d.1393)

    5b) Mary of England (b.1401: d.1436) m. Henry, 3rd Duke of Lancaster (b.1386: d.1424) (a) Charles, 2nd Duke of Orleans (b.1394) (b)
    1a) Henry, 4th Duke of Lancaster (b.1414) m. Yolande of Anjou (b.1412: d.1440) (a)
    1a) Joan of Lancaster (b.1433)

    2a) James, 5th Duke of Lancaster (b.1439)
    2a) Edward of Lancaster (b.1419: d.1470)

    3a) Margaret of Lancaster (b.1423: d.1424)

    4b) Louis, 3rd Duke of Orleans (b.1427: d.1500) m. Jeanne de Laval (b.1433: d.1498)
    1a) Louis, 4th Duke of Orleans (b.1458) m. Joan of Angouleme (b.1462: d.1520) (a)
    1a) Jeanne of Orleans (b.1489: d.1491)

    2a) Francis, 5th Duke of Orleans (b.1493)

    3a) Michelle of Orleans (b.1495)
    5b) Joan of Orleans (b.1430: d.1447)

    6b) Marie of Orleans (b.1432) m. John II of Anjou and Duke of Lorraine (b.1424: d.1470)) (a)
    1a) Richard of Lorraine (b.1459: d.1459)

    2a) Eleanor of Lorraine (b.1462: d.1481) m. Charles, Count of Angouleme (b.1459) (a)
    1a) Louis XIII of Lorraine (b.1481)
    3a) Marie of Lorraine (b.1463: d.1467)

    4a) John of Lorraine (b.1463: d.1463)
    7b) Charles of Orleans (b.1435: d.1436)

     
  6. Genetic Roses New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    I know this discussion hasn't had any recent activity, but I was curious what the outcome might have been if Richard II and his first wife had had a daughter. Would it have made his reign anymore secure (in light of primogeniture) and what would likely have been her fate? The original post mentions "WI: Richard II and Anne of Bohemia have children?" but only the possibility of a son is discussed.
    (On the side topic that emerged of birth gender ratios between couples, a contributing factor giving females an advantage over males is that women have two copies of the X chromosome and males only have one X and a Y. If a male has a genetic issue on either his X or Y chromosome he has no additional healthy copy to compensate with to avoid or mute expression of the issue. This can lead to a seemingly bias gender ratio for a couple if that particular set of parents has an issue on the chromosomes they are contributing).
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017