WI: Richard, Coeur de Lion Dies on Crusade? Effects on John's rule?

Go ahead. I'd like to see what someone can do with it.

Any thoughts on marriage partners for John's kids here? I purposely moved his son's birth to as late as it is to avoid an Isabelle d'Angoulême match in the next generation. Considering the age gaps between John's OTL daughters and their husbands the girls might even wed to the same men (more or less). OTL Isabella was betrothed to the more age-appropriate son of Friedrich II, Heinrich (VII), but then it was decided that he should marry the Babenberg girl instead, and the betrothal was switched. Joan was supposed to marry the comte de Lusignan (her mother's former beau), but he grew impatient waiting so he married her mom instead. Joan was then married to the king of Scots (b.1198).

So here's what I'm thinking:
Eleanor (b.1194) to Emperor Friedrich II (b.1194)
Blanche (b.1197) to ?
Constance (b.1203) to Alexander II of Scots (b.1198)
Isabella (b.1206) to ?
Joan (b.1207) to Jaime II, king of Aragon (b.1208) ?

A Lusignan marriage as well as a Montfort marriage seem unlikely to occur all things considered.

Hmm, I think Eleanor to Friedrich makes sense.

Blanche to either Alexander II or to Philip Count of Bolougne could be interesting.
 
I think in the scenario of John marrying Constance, I see Eleanor of Brittany marrying Peter II of Aragon while Blanche marries Louis VIII.
 
Hmm, I think Eleanor to Friedrich makes sense.

Blanche to either Alexander II or to Philip Count of Bolougne could be interesting.

The reason I wed Alex to Constance was that I sort of thought that the king of Scots isn't "important" enough for the second daughter of the king of England. Or perhaps when the marriage is agreed on, Blanche is betrothed elsewhere. To France, perhaps, like @kasumigenx suggested (I'd really prefer not to fiddle with the Louis VIII-Blanca of Castile match. Since they were married in 1200 when Blanche would be 3yo).
But I could see a match being proposed between Joan of England (b.1207) and Philippe de France (b.1209) eldest son of Louis VIII and Blanca. Before one can think this sounds insane, OTL, Alphonse (younger brother of St. Louis who OTL became Count of Toulouse) was betrothed to Isabelle de Lusignan (daughter of Isabelle d'Angoulême, ex-queen of England and Hugh de Lusignan)
 
Go ahead. I'd like to see what someone can do with it.

Any thoughts on marriage partners for John's kids here? I purposely moved his son's birth to as late as it is to avoid an Isabelle d'Angoulême match in the next generation. Considering the age gaps between John's OTL daughters and their husbands the girls might even wed to the same men (more or less). OTL Isabella was betrothed to the more age-appropriate son of Friedrich II, Heinrich (VII), but then it was decided that he should marry the Babenberg girl instead, and the betrothal was switched. Joan was supposed to marry the comte de Lusignan (her mother's former beau), but he grew impatient waiting so he married her mom instead. Joan was then married to the king of Scots (b.1198).

So here's what I'm thinking:
Eleanor (b.1194) to Emperor Friedrich II (b.1194)
Blanche (b.1197) to ?
Constance (b.1203) to Alexander II of Scots (b.1198)
Isabella (b.1206) to ?
Joan (b.1207) to Jaime II, king of Aragon (b.1208) ?

A Lusignan marriage as well as a Montfort marriage seem unlikely to occur all things considered.
Do not worry about Isabelle as at this point she would end marrying her original fiancé as without the OTL circumstances a royal match for her is pretty unlikely
 
Is there any reason they would back Arthur? I mean, a kid isn't gonna be able to lead an army. Yes, he's likely to be set up as a sort of anti-king, but it's unlikely that a 5yo is going to garner much support (beyond from John's opposition - which I could imagine would be quite considerable should he screw up as badly as he did OTL, without OTL's circumstances to excuse it)

To be fair here any changes are almost entirely dependant on the actions of William Marshal, 1st Earl of Pembroke.

As historically he did back John over Arthur.
 
To be fair here any changes are almost entirely dependant on the actions of William Marshal, 1st Earl of Pembroke.

As historically he did back John over Arthur.

Fair enough. In 1192/1193 would he have reason to back John over Artie as OTL? A kid might be unable to lead an army, but Marshall DID back Henry III over the French candidate as well (although TBF that might have been a combo of loyalty to the Plantagenets and a sort of English xenophobia)
 
John can certainly marry Alys if he's dead set on it but don't discount Eleanor's influence. OTL, she's the reason we had a King John instead of a King Arthur. ITTL, John's position is comparatively strengthened but when she dies, we'll actually see John for all his faults.
 
John can certainly marry Alys if he's dead set on it but don't discount Eleanor's influence. OTL, she's the reason we had a King John instead of a King Arthur. ITTL, John's position is comparatively strengthened but when she dies, we'll actually see John for all his faults.

Interesting. How would Eleonore be "improving' Johnny's image exactly? And John's wedding Constance of Aragon, so Alys can wed her OTL husband and only have a daughter like OTL. Maybe the daughter would be considered for a match with TTL Richard II if Philippe Auguste has no legitimate daughters of appropriate age, but I somehow doubt that such a match would be taken, even if offered.
 
I think Eleanor of Brittany can marry Conrad instead in order to prevent the match between Berengaria and Conrad.
 
I think Eleanor of Brittany can marry Conrad instead in order to prevent the match between Berengaria and Conrad.

Considering that Berengaria and Konrad wed in 1188 (five years before the POD), I think Eleanor might make a decent second wife for Konrad rather than a replacement wife for his Castilian bride. And also, considering that Aliénor of Aquitaine was the one behind the breakup of the Konrad-Berengaria marriage, I'm not sure Kunz will be in favour of a marriage with another of her granddaughters.
 
Considering that Berengaria and Konrad wed in 1188 (five years before the POD), I think Eleanor might make a decent second wife for Konrad rather than a replacement wife for his Castilian bride. And also, considering that Aliénor of Aquitaine was the one behind the breakup of the Konrad-Berengaria marriage, I'm not sure Kunz will be in favour of a marriage with another of her granddaughters.
Berengaria is below the age of consent, that is the problem so it can be treated as an sponsalia/betrothal.
 
Berengaria is below the age of consent, that is the problem so it can be treated as an sponsalia/betrothal.

Which it WAS from what I can make out. But by the time of the POD Konrad's wed Berengaria and been divorced from her already. Ergo its a moot point.

A BETTER point would be John OFFERING his niece as a REPLACEMENT wife to Konrad. Although, for reasons mentioned above, Konrad might NOT WANT to marry Eleanor (she has a brother ahead of her in the Breton succession, possibly with more to follow if her mother produces boys.
 
Which it WAS from what I can make out. But by the time of the POD Konrad's wed Berengaria and been divorced from her already. Ergo its a moot point.

A BETTER point would be John OFFERING his niece as a REPLACEMENT wife to Konrad. Although, for reasons mentioned above, Konrad might NOT WANT to marry Eleanor (she has a brother ahead of her in the Breton succession, possibly with more to follow if her mother produces boys.
The Duke of Burgundy wanted her as his bride IOTL, I think in this case it happens.
 
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