WI: reincarnation accepted by majority of christianity

[John I of Brazil]

“The disciples asked him, ‘Why, then, do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?’ Jesus replied, ‘To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.’ Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.” Matthew 17:10-13

This is one of the many parts of the Bible that may prove/confirm/defend the concept of reincarnation. In OTL, the belief in reincarnation became a heresy and is not accepted by virtually all the christian churches nowadays. However, what if this belief was accepted and defended by majority of the churches, those which don't believe in it being a tiny minority today?

 

[Philip]

This is one of the many parts of the Bible that may prove/confirm/defend the concept of reincarnation

Not really. Elijah was believed to not have died but to have been taken into heaven on a chariot of fire/whirlwind. The passage about John wad always been understood by the Fathers to mean the office of Elijah.

 

[FillyofDelphi]

“The disciples asked him, ‘Why, then, do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?’ Jesus replied, ‘To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.’ Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.” Matthew 17:10-13

This is one of the many parts of the Bible that may prove/confirm/defend the concept of reincarnation. In OTL, the belief in reincarnation became a heresy and is not accepted by virtually all the christian churches nowadays. However, what if this belief was accepted and defended by majority of the churches, those which don't believe in it being a tiny minority today?

Just a theory, but perhaps have "in the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands" be interpreted to mean the Spirit of Christ comes back to earth against and again as a kind of "constant renewal" of the New Covinent (or at least trying to get people to know of its actual terms, since he never got a chance to codify it), but keeps getting killed before he has a chance to spread it. That could be a reason why the Second Coming dosen't happen when its expected: God is only willing to judge people's actions once they know the 'rule of the game' so to speak. This could lead to a shift in perception on Purgatory so that souls that aren't doomed to hell but haven't proven worthy of heaven have to "burn off" their excess sin in in a new body (Since Sin can only be disposed of on earth, not brought up into the pure presence of God)

 

[Arcavia]

Best way to get this to happen would be for there to be more syncretism between Christianity and Buddhism. Perhaps a Greco-Bactrian wank means that ideas of Buddhism are more Hellenized and spread throughout the eastern territories of the Roman Empire, and are later amalgamated into Christian theology similar to how certain aspects of neo-Platonism were? The real challenge, then, lies in reconciling the promise of eternal reward with reincarnation, but this could be overcome by a variety of philosophical expedients or even by reinterpreting it as an aspect of Karma.

 

[FillyofDelphi]

Best way to get this to happen would be for there to be more syncretism between Christianity and Buddhism. Perhaps a Greco-Bactrian wank means that ideas of Buddhism are more Hellenized and spread throughout the eastern territories of the Roman Empire, and are later amalgamated into Christian theology similar to how certain aspects of neo-Platonism were? The real challenge, then, lies in reconciling the promise of eternal reward with reincarnation, but this could be overcome by a variety of philosophical expedients or even by reinterpreting it as an aspect of Karma.

Who says reincarnation has to be universal or eternal? I mean, even Buddism and Hinduism have the ultimate end goal/final good state being escaping the cycle.

Maybe something like Cathar Christinaity is what you're looking for? The idea that "The Flesh/material is evil, the Spirit/immaterial is good, and trapping our spirits in flesh again and against iis a result of our sins."

 

[John I of Brazil]

Best way to get this to happen would be for there to be more syncretism between Christianity and Buddhism. Perhaps a Greco-Bactrian wank means that ideas of Buddhism are more Hellenized and spread throughout the eastern territories of the Roman Empire, and are later amalgamated into Christian theology similar to how certain aspects of neo-Platonism were? The real challenge, then, lies in reconciling the promise of eternal reward with reincarnation, but this could be overcome by a variety of philosophical expedients or even by reinterpreting it as an aspect of Karma.

Who says reincarnation has to be universal or eternal? I mean, even Buddism and Hinduism have the ultimate end goal/final good state being escaping the cycle.

Maybe something like Cathar Christinaity is what you're looking for? The idea that "The Flesh/material is evil, the Spirit/immaterial is good, and trapping our spirits in flesh again and against iis a result of our sins."

Both are interesting. I was thinking about something less "exotic", like a Christianity more influenced by platonic concepts like metempsychosis. Anyway, the impacts in early church "politics" would be interesting.

 

[Marc]

Sorry, it violates the essence of Christianity as understood, then and now.
A brief quote that summarizes the core belief:

"Death is the end of man’s earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When “the single course of our earthly life” is completed, we shall not return to other earthly lives: “It is appointed for men to die once” (Heb. 9:27). There is no “reincarnation” after death."

Your postulate creates an impossible theological paradox... people really did take all this seriously, once upon a time.

 

[Arcavia]

Sorry, it violates the essence of Christianity as understood, then and now.
A brief quote that summarizes the core belief:

"Death is the end of man’s earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When “the single course of our earthly life” is completed, we shall not return to other earthly lives: “It is appointed for men to die once” (Heb. 9:27). There is no “reincarnation” after death."

Your postulate creates an impossible paradox.

I mean, sure, but that's kind of the point of alternate history. The religion that might develop if reincarnation was introduced might not look like Christianity OTL, but it certainly isn't ASB to see it emerge somehow. Again, I think Buddhist syncretism is the best approach; if Saul is exposed to the Dhamma as well as Greek philosophy and Hebrew theology, the text of the Epistle to the Hebrews would of course look different. The POD would have to be well before the life of Jesus Nazarenus though.

 

[Skallagrim]

Sorry, it violates the essence of Christianity as understood, then and now.
A brief quote that summarizes the core belief:

"Death is the end of man’s earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When “the single course of our earthly life” is completed, we shall not return to other earthly lives: “It is appointed for men to die once” (Heb. 9:27). There is no “reincarnation” after death."

Your postulate creates an impossible theological paradox... people really did take all this seriously, once upon a time.

Welllllllll.... While it is indeed appointed for men to die only once, it is understood that there will ultimately be "a new Heaven and a new Earth". And in this world to come, redeemed humanity will live again, and live forever. Thus only dying once, but living twice.

There is even some disagreement about whether this should be understood as bodily resurrection or not. If so, we may argue that Christianity does believe in re-incarnation (literally "re-embodiment"), and that the OP is in fact reflected in OTL. It's just that the application of the concept is highly specific, and not all Christians agree that the existence of the faithful in the world to come is to be understood as physical existence in a new body.

 

[CountPeter]

Best way to get this to happen would be for there to be more syncretism between Christianity and Buddhism. Perhaps a Greco-Bactrian wank means that ideas of Buddhism are more Hellenized and spread throughout the eastern territories of the Roman Empire, and are later amalgamated into Christian theology similar to how certain aspects of neo-Platonism were? The real challenge, then, lies in reconciling the promise of eternal reward with reincarnation, but this could be overcome by a variety of philosophical expedients or even by reinterpreting it as an aspect of Karma.

So a few things here.

Firstly, that POD is early enough to butterfly Christianity away entirely.

Secondly, Buddhism and Christianity have never syncretised well due to their being polar opposites in almost every regard. Guatama is a far more satanic figure by Christian standards.

 

[Jared]

So a few things here.

Firstly, that POD is early enough to butterfly Christianity away entirely.

Secondly, Buddhism and Christianity have never syncretised well due to their being polar opposites in almost every regard. Guatama is a far more satanic figure by Christian standards.

Buddhism and Christianity are quite capable of syncretism in the right circumstances. There was some syncreticism with Nestorianism and Buddhism. Check out the Jesus Sutras, for instance. (Can't link on my phone, but easily googled).

 

[Albert.Nik]

Have Christianity and Jesus(or whoever existed in his place in reality) face less hostilities in the formative era. This would make Christianity have a comparatively more tolerance for others and say that everybody would eventually get Salvation.

 

[CountPeter]

Buddhism and Christianity are quite capable of syncretism in the right circumstances. There was some syncreticism with Nestorianism and Buddhism. Check out the Jesus Sutras, for instance. (Can't link on my phone, but easily googled).

The Jesus Sutra is actually a good example of what I was discussing.

First of all, the name itself is misleading as the "Sutra" part comes much later and by western commenters, and largely came about in the context of "huh, Buddha and Jesus are both mentioned here". Theologically, the Jesus Sutra is closer to it's own thing but best reflects the key problem in any syncretic attempt between the two.

In short, you cant combine the two without ignoring or being ignorant on the theology/philosophy of one or both.
My comment on Buddhism as Satanic is not hyperbole.

When it does mention a supreme deity akin to Yahweh (Brahma or the notion of the Ishvara), it is in the context of humans being able to surpass said ignorant deity. Most notably, the Pali Canon is very specific in it's terminology as a challenge towards any supreme deity.

Where Christianity is transcendental in it's knowledge, Buddhism very much isnt (bare with me).
Earliest schools of Buddhism were specifically empiricist and atomicst in opposition to the more rationalist Brahminical tradition.
Mahayana was founded on the works of Nagarjuna, a philosopher who's skepticism would make Descartes blush and outright literally rejects the possibility of an all knowing, all powerful creator. A far cry from a god for whom his "understanding is infinite".

I could go on (and have before, having made a thread about how incompatible they are on every level in the past), but in short I stand by my statement. Buddhism and Christianity cannot syncretise without having a fictional understanding of one or both. I think it is most telling that the surviving attempts of such syncretism in general (Ahamiddya Islam and Bahai) have to literally make shit up.