WI: Reconstruction of the North?

In hypothetical Northern secessions, usually AH writers either have the now Southern-dominated United States basically not caring that the North seceded and letting them go, or if the South does attempt to force the North back into the Union, the attempt fails and the North wins their independence. What I'm interested in is a scenario in which, for whatever reason, the North secedes and the South successfully defeats the North in an ensuing civil war, and in doing so the South basically has the ability to reconstruct (or deconstruct if you like) Northern society as it sees fit.

I'm open to what this Northern "confederacy" looks like, but I would say at the least it should contain the New England states and maybe New York and Pennsylvania.

So what would a Southern 'reconstruction' of the Yankees look like?
 
Uh, catching every free Blacks in the North, and forcing them back into their racial slavery status? Using them as slave labor to reconstruct the north?

Dismantling every factories and moving them south to keep those yankees in line?

And in late 19th early 20th eugenic crazy south dominated USA decides to dabble in abominable arts of breeding the slaves to be strong but low iq and obedient almost mindless drone?

One can say I'm too much high on Drakaverse, so pardon my dystopian scenarios
 
In hypothetical Northern secessions, usually AH writers either have the now Southern-dominated United States basically not caring that the North seceded and letting them go, or if the South does attempt to force the North back into the Union, the attempt fails and the North wins their independence. What I'm interested in is a scenario in which, for whatever reason, the North secedes and the South successfully defeats the North in an ensuing civil war, and in doing so the South basically has the ability to reconstruct (or deconstruct if you like) Northern society as it sees fit.

I'm open to what this Northern "confederacy" looks like, but I would say at the least it should contain the New England states and maybe New York and Pennsylvania.

So what would a Southern 'reconstruction' of the Yankees look like?

A situation in which New England and New York state would secede from the Union and New York City (under Mayor Wood) would then "secede from secession" and remain in the Union would almost be a Southerner's wet dream! If the Southerners and their "doughface" friends could win in this alt-1860 even *with* the "fanatics" of New England and Upstate New York in the Union, imagine their grip on power with those areas gone! President Breckinridge or Lane would *very* happily let these "erring sisters" depart...

Incidentally, consider Alexander Stephens' reaction to Lincoln's election in his speech to the Georgia legislature. It seems that both he and his listeners were not displeased by the thought of a Union without New England:

"My own opinion is, that if this course be pursued, and they are informed of the consequences of refusal, these States will recede, will repeal their nullifying acts; but if they should not, then let the consequences be with them, and the responsibility of the consequences rest upon them. Another thing that I would have that Convention do. Re-affirm the Georgia Platform with an additional plank in it. Let that plank be the fulfillment of these Constitutional obligations on the part of these States-- their repeal of these obnoxious laws as the condition of our remaining in the Union. Give them time to consider it, and I would ask all States South to do the same thing.

"I am for exhausting all that patriotism demands, before taking the last step. I would invite, therefore, South Carolina to a conference. I would ask the same of all the other Southern States, so that if the evil has got beyond our control, which God in his mercy grant may not be the case, we may not be divided among ourselves; (cheers) but if possible, secure the united cooperation of all the Southern States, and then in the face of the civilized world, we may justify our action, and, with the wrong all on the other side, we can appeal to the God of Battles, if it comes to that, to aid us in our cause. (Loud applause.) But do nothing, in which any portion of our people, may charge you with rash or hasty action. It is certainly a matter of great importance to tear this government asunder. You were not sent here for that purpose. I would wish the whole South to be united, if this is to be done; and I believe if we pursue the policy which I have indicated, this can be effected.

"In this way, our sister Southern States can be induced to act with us; and I have but little doubt, that the States of New York, and Pennsylvania, and Ohio, and the other Western States, will compel their Legislatures to recede from their hostile attitude, if the others do not. Then, with these, we would go on without New England, if she chose to stay out.

[A voice in the Assembly: `We will kick them out.']

[Mr. Stephens:] No. I would not kick them out. But if they chose to stay out they might...." http://civilwarcauses.org/steph2.htm
 
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PhilippeO

Banned
re-arrangement of land ownership, inheritance and voting rights ?

so instead of small plot of land, land will be consolidated to large "plantation". poor white will become "tenant" with some obligation to plantation manager. kibbutz-iation / collective-isation with biggest landowner become manager.

installing primogeniture to prevent break-up of inheritance land.

instead of "steadholding act" land on the west will be auctioned by state. immigrant have to have money or become tenants.

if i remember northerner prefer small village, with farmer commuting to their land, while southerner prefer individual house in the middle of their land. this settlement pattern could be made mandatory in west, requiring house in the middle of farm, to register land ownership.

requirement of certain minimum of land owned before voting, to prevent immigrant and factory worker to vote.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
Would the south want to reconstruct the north? I think instead they would just enforce new laws and amendments to make sure no state can ever outlaw slavery completely, and runaway slaves must always be returned.

The effect would be that the north would essentially still be free soil, but southerners taking slaves noryh on business or to work there would never ave to fear their slaves being suddenly freed or running away.

Also, the south would probably demand an end to high tariffs. And to subsidies for any industry or for internal improvements. Those would be constitutionally prohibited, like in the CSA constitution.

That would be the extent of it though. With that, all southern goals would be accomplished.

(The more likely outcome of course is that they just let the north go, as others have said already. Then they'd have their way without having to impose new laws or alter the constiution.)
 
Would the south want to reconstruct the north? I think instead they would just enforce new laws and amendments to make sure no state can ever outlaw slavery completely, and runaway slaves must always be returned.

The effect would be that the north would essentially still be free soil, but southerners taking slaves noryh on business or to work there would never ave to fear their slaves being suddenly freed or running away.

Also, the south would probably demand an end to high tariffs. And to subsidies for any industry or for internal improvements. Those would be constitutionally prohibited, like in the CSA constitution.

That would be the extent of it though. With that, all southern goals would be accomplished.

(The more likely outcome of course is that they just let the north go, as others have said already. Then they'd have their way without having to impose new laws or alter the constiution.)

Very much this. And especially that last part. IOTL, many Southern politicians proclaimed how happy they were to have "rid themselves of the Yankees". That would be no different if the North had quit the Union. Whereas many Northern politicians believed the Union to be "one and indivisible", many of their Southern counterparts believed whole-heartedly in their own mythology of the "Southern race" that was separate from all others.

(This went beyond cultural identity: they literally claimed that Southern landlords descended from Norman aristocrats, whereas all Yankees descended from Anglo-Saxon 'rabble'. This is particularly ironic when you know that Thomas Jefferson, the very image of a Southern gentleman, originally held that the Anglo-Saxons were a proud, free people that the Americans should seek to emulate. How things change! From admiring the free Anglo-Saxons in 1776 to admiring the Norman aristocrats in 1860!)

Anyway, if the North left, the southern slavers would be verry happy about it, and they would not seek to re-unite the USA or to "reconstruct" anyone. At most, they'd whine about escaped slaves not being returned anymore.
 
(This went beyond cultural identity: they literally claimed that Southern landlords descended from Norman aristocrats, whereas all Yankees descended from Anglo-Saxon 'rabble'. This is particularly ironic when you know that Thomas Jefferson, the very image of a Southern gentleman, originally held that the Anglo-Saxons were a proud, free people that the Americans should seek to emulate. How things change! From admiring the free Anglo-Saxons in 1776 to admiring the Norman aristocrats in 1860!).

What's so extraordinarily ironic about the fact that some really did claim this later on in the era, is that the good majority of the Southern ruling class.....were themselves Anglo-Saxon! (And even more so than many Yankee places in some states; especially South Carolina and Mississippi in particular).

But then again, I suppose cognitive dissonance can indeed go to extraordinary lengths.....
 
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