WI: Rashidi Arabia

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Whiteshore, May 15, 2019.

  1. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Location:
    Philippines
    In a scenario where the Rashidis defeated the Saudis during the Saudi-Rashidi War, rendering the House of Saud a historical footnote and unites Arabia in a manner akin to the Saudis IOTL, how does Arabia develop? What does a Jabal Shammar which encompasses the territory of OTL Saudi Arabia look like? How does the lack of Wahhabism affect the wider Middle East?
     
    Aloha and Dingus Khan like this.
  2. KingOnTheEdge Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Well we could have a genuine Middle Eastern ally and not an oil dealer that in all other aspects should be an enemy of the United States
     
  3. Livius wannabe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Can you elaborate on that? How would the house of Rashid make such a difference?
     
  4. KingOnTheEdge Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    The house of Saud and its extremism funds every terrorist cell and school of Islam america has fought for ~18 years. The Rashids wouldn’t necessarily ally with America, but I highly doubt they would fund those radicals.
     
  5. Livius wannabe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Did the Rashids follow a different theological school? As I understand, the Sauds are in a symbiotic relationship with Wahabi clerics, which they have to appease in order to remain in power.
    If the above is correct, how would this PoD affect the bulk of the population?
     
  6. Ameck16 There are too many Rabbits in my head.

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2014
    Location:
    London UK
    Radishi's followed the mainstream Sunni Islam of the time, while the Saudi's follow Wahhabi interpretation of Islam.
     
  7. Minchandre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Location:
    The Garden State
    Without the Saudis, the British probably don't have split loyalties and so the Hashemites end up in charge of Nejd and Hedjaz instead of ibn Saud kicking them out. Those states might remain independent.

    Anway, we're looking at presumably a strong ally to the British, but also to Jordan and Iraq. It would be interesting to see if this kingdom is as willing to play ball with the Americans over oil, or if it will stick to the British, or play the US and UK off of each other. Plus, likely to modernize, etc.

    One thing that's interesting is whether this kingdom/these kingdoms might fall to Arab nationalist republics, where the Saudis did not. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about Arab nationalism in Arabia to say more.
     
    Damian0358 and Ameck16 like this.
  8. Dingus Khan Emperor of Nowhere

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Location:
    California
    The Middle East is still going to be a chaotic mess of a region, but at least Wahabbism won't be thrown into the mix.
     
  9. Livius wannabe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Does Rashidi Arabia remain tribal?
     
  10. Lalli Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
    Propably. Arabia has always been very tribalist and it would be very difficult remove tribal system and replace that with centralised government.
     
  11. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Location:
    Philippines
    So TTL's Islamism is going to be mainly inspired by the Muslim Brotherhood?
     
  12. SealTheRealDeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Does this mean Kuwait gets to keep the other two thirds of Kuwait?
     
    Damian0358, Stenz and Whiteshore like this.
  13. metalinvader665 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Location:
    Tennessee, North American Union
    Ha'il is a major city and Riyadh is a small desert oasis.
     
  14. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Location:
    Philippines
    Hadn't thought about it, but it works.
     
  15. Ian_W Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2015
    I wouldn't bet on that.

    The House of Saud cut a deal with the Wahabbi for the same reasons the House of Orange cut a deal with the Calvinists.
     
    Whiteshore likes this.
  16. Jackson Lennock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Ha'il is actually on significant Arabian trade and migration/travel route, so I can see it being larger that OTL Riyadh.




    The question is, how much oil do the Rashidis have? Without Ibn Saud's personal relationship with Percy Cox, Kuwait will be three times its OTL size and have a good amount more oil.
     
  17. Masked Grizzly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Never knew Kuwait once held part of today's OTL Eastern Province in Saudi Arabia, doesn't the area still hold a large Shia population?
     
    Mister Mister likes this.
  18. CountDVB Dual Emperor of the Aztech and Maychanical Empires

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2017
    Y’all are missing a larger picture here.

    The Rashidi were historical allies of the Ottoman Empire. If they got more land under them, it would mean that they’d be a more formidable threat to the Hashemites if they still allied under the British.

    If the Rashidi has United most of the other tribes, the Hashemites may not be as willing to help the British. Either the Hashemites remain neutral or the British will have to provide better concessions.

    It’s likely the Hejaz would remain separate from the rest of Arabia, being a larger Jamal Shammar. My guess is that they would have closer ties with Turkey and definitely be more reasonable than Saudi Arabia.
     
    Whiteshore and Soverihn like this.
  19. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Location:
    Philippines
    Anyways, what would be the larger impact of Rashidi Arabia/Greater Jabal Shammar on the Middle East?
     
  20. Ian_W Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2015
    The big impact on the Middle East was the three-cornered fight for the region between the traditional kings, the Young Turk modernisers and the communists, later adding political Shi'a.

    Which tribal leadership gets dominance over what bit of land isn't very important - whats more important is that it's traditional leadership rather than an Attaturk or a Nasser.

    And then you have the issue of nationalising the oil.
     
    Whiteshore likes this.