WI RAAF kept the Phantoms?

The switch from Canberra to F111 was a long process which required a 3 year lease of 24 F4Es to cover the capability gap, keeping 1 squadron of Canberras active until 1982 and finally drawing down to 2 squadrons of F111 instead of 3 of Canberras. At the same time the RAAF lost 19 Mirage fighters in crashes up to 1973 when the Phantoms were handed back (minis 1 which we crashed).

So WI we negotiated to keep the 23 Phantoms both to cover Mirage losses and get rid of the Canberras?
 
Upside? Well the Phantoms are going to be cheaper to buy and maintain. The RAAF could also maybe buy more of them and keep those three squadrons operational longer. The aircraft also has greater multirole capability

Downside? The F-4 is good but its range and payload can't compare to an F-111.

In the short term money is saved to be invested elsewhere - navy perhaps?

In the longer term, the Mirafe's are still going to need to be replaced. But with a mutlirole aircraft in place will it be F-18s or maybe cheaper F-16s?

Russell
 
IOTL 1974 we had 24 F111s, 97 Mirages (from 116 delivered and 19 crashed) and 10-15 Canberras. We kept the Canberras in service until 1982, the Mirages until 1988 and F111s until December 2010.

ITTL 1974 we'd have 24 F111s, 23 F4Es and 97 Mirages. The rationale would be replacement of crashed Mirages and instant retirement of 2sqn Canberras. Maybe the F4Es would be reoriented toward air to air duties to provide long range counter-air capability with the re-orientation of Australian defence policy toward a self-reliant posture at the time.
 
Ahh, so the RAAF keeps the F-4's AND the F-111's. In that case they're going to be low on funds. But the F-4s will make good ranged patrol aircraft. The real question is, does Australia need to replace the Mirage III's? Or will it just but more F-4's and let them go out of service in the 80's. Equally, will they just replace both in the 80's with F-18's?

Russell
 
Yes, we have to get the F111s, they were built in 1967 and were sitting in a shed for 3 years before the F4E were leased and we handed the F4Es back once the problems with F111s wre solved. But in that time we lost 19 Mirages and still ended up keeping a squadron of Canberras on strength for another 9 years. In my mind the F4Es could be retained to cover those lost Mirages and obsolete Canberras.
 
I found out today that the RAAF kept 9 Canberras on strength from 1973 until 1982. In my mind the 23 Phantoms could be kept as replacement for these 9 Canberras and the 19 Mirages lost in crashes up until 1973 when they were returned.
 
Well if your going to keep the F-4's, how about getting a couple of KC-135 tankers and give them and the Pigs some more range. And while we're at it, how about a couple of AWACS, maybe those E-3 Sentry's that were ordered by Iran an subsquently offered to the Saudi's
 
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E3s always were beyond our price range. Considering what we ended up with the Hawkeye radar setup in a 737 airframe would do the trick nicely.

As for tankers by the mid 70s there were plenty of good 707s around that could be converted into tankers.
 

NothingNow

Banned
Alright, so how would the Phantoms be modernized (unless they're being replaced by something else later on,) since they'll be pretty obsolete by 1990. Something like the Luftwaffe's ICE-upgrade program, or Kurnass 2000 would probably be the best bet, although they'd still need to be replaced by something around this point, although ideally before 2000. Still, that's a decent savings over 20-30 years that could be plowed into other aviation assets.
 
The Mirages were replaced by Hornets in 1985-90, by 1990 the Phantoms will be 20 years old so perhaps they are replaced by an extended Hornet production run or the F111G buy by 1993.
 

Sior

Banned
a3562952-188-TSR2-%26amp%3B-P1121.jpg


The TSR2 with the Hawker P.1121 in the background.

Enough said
 
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