wi Queendom

Tyr

I've been thinking about this with regards to a fantasy setting mainly. How could we get a Queendom to work realistically- I'm not wanting to go down any sort of cliched Amazon warrior or magic powered women route, I'm thinking solidly within the rules of our universe.
Which leads me to ponder, is there any point where we could get such a thing IOTL?

My thinking about how to do it leads me down the path of a captive monarch. A constitutional monarchy which wasn't exactly the monarchys idea. Revolutionary leaders think that maybe a woman ruler is easier to control than a king but still maintains the same legitamcy. And/or they believe that people will be more willing to fight for a woman than a man, that a woman makes for a better national symbol.
The only big problem standing out to me is in how then we continue the line- how to stop the king/prince consort being too powerful. Having the queen passed around a bunch of men, perhaps a random citizen drawn by lot, is going down a bit too much of a kinky fantasy route which I want to avoid and of course in the real world of christianity would be rather....iffy.

So, this is a very unlikely scenario, but is there anyway we can stretch and poke at history to make a Queendom appear somewhere?
 
Thande

Thande

Donor
High infant death rates and therefore almost continuous pregnancies were the major factor holding back female participation in government in the past. So make it a non-linear succession with a sterile or virgin queen who chooses her successor?
 

whitecrow

Banned
I've read once that "early" societies were often matriarchal but became patriarchal over time for some reason. Anyone know more about this theory?
 

Enthea

Codae said:
That's not matriarchal--it's just a way of concentrating legitimacy for a more stable, still male-dominated, succession.
Click to expand...
I think, the right term would be matrinlinear. In such a society the son in law would be the next king. (But I really don't know if Egypt had a matrilinear system.)

In OT there were queens like Amalsawintha and Theudelinde, who reigned for their sons or their men, when they went into battle. I think, this isn't the concept you are looking for, but these are evidences, that even in our western OT women were seen fitted for regnancy.

Of course, unknown fatherhood and the killing of all sons could solve the problem.

Or you could create a society, were all the land belongs to the women. If you have an agrarian society, this would be a huge factor and a good reason, why all the power is in the hands of women.
 

Lleibi

The problem is that as long as there's a military ingredient in the kingly mix, it's difficult to avoid male-preference.

I am thinking that early on the roles of military leadership and source of justice get divided. Some sort of "the justice comes from god/s through their priestesses", hence joining the religious power with justice. But it has to happen early enough to become a major influence in the birth of civilization.

Or something.
 

cimon

Tyr said:
I've been thinking about this with regards to a fantasy setting mainly. How could we get a Queendom to work realistically- I'm not wanting to go down any sort of cliched Amazon warrior or magic powered women route, I'm thinking solidly within the rules of our universe.
Which leads me to ponder, is there any point where we could get such a thing IOTL?

My thinking about how to do it leads me down the path of a captive monarch. A constitutional monarchy which wasn't exactly the monarchys idea. Revolutionary leaders think that maybe a woman ruler is easier to control than a king but still maintains the same legitamcy. And/or they believe that people will be more willing to fight for a woman than a man, that a woman makes for a better national symbol.
The only big problem standing out to me is in how then we continue the line- how to stop the king/prince consort being too powerful. Having the queen passed around a bunch of men, perhaps a random citizen drawn by lot, is going down a bit too much of a kinky fantasy route which I want to avoid and of course in the real world of christianity would be rather....iffy.

So, this is a very unlikely scenario, but is there anyway we can stretch and poke at history to make a Queendom appear somewhere?
Click to expand...
Why not Amazons?with the little information we have available,only their campaign against Theseus Athens shows a very advanced military organization,a Spartan like training regime,although more advanced since it was based in cavalry, healthy tough life that bred warrior-women and a very closely nit society;some had dismissed it as myth but none has found a persuasive explanation for the Amazonium in Athens,and certain other toponymics and circulating stories.
 

Dathi THorfinnsson

Rex Mundi said:
How not? There has never been one.
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There are LOTS of matriarchal societies, although most are hunter-gatherer level. There are, of course, far more patriarchal societies, and weird mixtures (look at e.g. the Iroquois/Haudonosaunee practice of having men's councils and women's councils, and who made the decision depended on what the topic was, say. And inheritance was matrilineal.)

But getting a society complex and stratified enough to have a Queen/King and still have a full matriarchy would be difficult, I will certainly admit.
 

jkay

But the Amazons IMHO probably were real, given the number of Greek classical references; some details even have some consistency. I'd google them and decide for yourself what looks reasonable. Thougb, if it's fantasu, you might not care about consistency.

So were the Sarmatian steppe horse nomade said to be Amazon daughters with a different kind of steppe nomad tribe next to them.

In the Caribbean, there was less sexism, apparently, and there were a good share of women Caciques (chief).

There, I've given you two paths.
 

ingemann

Banned
I think the solution are a symbolic religious monarchy much like the Japanese. The queen are seen as a living god or the high priestess of the state cult, and her duty are to perform religious rituals. She are married to the duke (duke original was a title for the primary war leader), who are elected by a council of nobles (and can be removed from power/divorced friom the queen). The queens son end up as priest/bishops/munks, while one daughters inherite, while the other serve priestesses in provincial temples or as junior priestesses to the queen (they also get children to secure separate lines). The fact that the duke's son with the queen are send off to monasties keep him from trying to get his sons to become duke after him, through he may try to get his nephews elected. This system would be somewhat stable, the primary weakness would be that it would have a tendence to ensure strong nobles. It would likely function best if it had relative little external pressure (like the Japanese system).
 
Alex Richards

Alex Richards

Donor
Yeah, if we're going with a fantasy setting, just have a particular 'magic' or power which is invaluable in protecting the nation only utilisable by women, and inheritable.
 

The Ubbergeek

Alex Richards said:
Yeah, if we're going with a fantasy setting, just have a particular 'magic' or power which is invaluable in protecting the nation only utilisable by women, and inheritable.
Click to expand...

And then, there is also potentially REAL Gods and all...

Matriarcate could be easy to get if backed by a frickin' GOD(dess).
 

Velasco

The Meroitic Queens (Kandakes) led armies, ruled land, even when they had husbands (who played a junior role as royal consorts) and sons. It didn't happen always and it's not clear to me how succession worked, but it's plenty to work with. Given the right POD/TL you could potentially make it the norm or default.
 
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