WI - Queen Wilhelmina in Jakarta?
- Thread starter twistedirregular
- Start date
if they can't relocate to Dutch East Indies than I think they will to Dutch Suriname
Dutch naval forces were used in the Pacific, and the presence of the Royal Family and government in-exile in the Americas would also I assume lead to Dutch naval forces doing. there part to help protect allied shipping in the Americas from German submarines. That would also free up more US Naval forces to prepare for the D-Day landings and the European theatre of war as well as the war with Japanese in the Pacific.
How much of the Dutch Navy joined the Free Dutch Forces? If my memory serves me correct, there were around 600 ships as apart of their merchant marine that was vital to shipping needed supplies to London so the British may not allow for many more Dutch ships to go towards the defense of the Dutch East Indies or whatever colony the Dutch exiles relocate to. On the other hand, the Princess Irene Brigade sees an increase in manpower if Dutch colonial forces (both Dutch settlers and Indonesians) are absorbed into the Brigade.
Most of the Dutch Navy continued to fight on after 1940 with the exception of a few ships and submarines the Germans managed to capture. They also got a few ships transferred to them by the British (a couple of N class destroyers for example).
How much of the Dutch Navy can be moved to the Dutch East Indies in 1940? Could they fight off the Imperial Japanese Navy or would it succumb to the Japanese as OTL?
Deleted member 2186
You mean before May 1940 when Germany invaded ore after May 1940 when Germany had already concurred the Netherlands homeland, in both cases, they can send as much as they want, but the Japanese are still going to inflict heavy losses to them in the end.
I mean't after the German occupation of the Netherlands and relocation of the Dutch government to London and could a combined Anglo-Dutch force defeat the Japanese or not?
Deleted member 2186
Not in 1941, not even with every Royal Netherlands Navy ship there, they would end up on all sunk.
So could the Allied Powers defend the Dutch East Indies from a Japanese occupation or is this implausible?
Most of the WW2 Dutch Navy was in the DEI when the Japanese attacked. The only ships that weren't were a few destroyers and submarines, some auxiliaries, and one cruiser.
Actually De Geer wanted to get an understanding with the Germans at that stage. Wilhelmina wouldn't let that happen so De Geer moved back to the Netherlands by himself.
You do have to realise a few things:
- Wilhelmina had lost a LOT of popularity because of the evacuation to London as the public felt deserted. This feeling might be even worse if she moves to the other side of the world.
- One of the major factors in the recovery of her popularity (and indeed idolisation) was her regular appearance in Radio Oranje, the Dutch programming of the BBC. This won't be possible from Batavia.
- London was the capital of the only major power still fighting Germany. It's the only place where the Dutch in exile could influence the liberation of the home country.
Impossible. The Dutch wanted every man to defend Java as they (correctly) feared that if they would lose it they would never get it back. All evacuated personel were specialists and in numbers never big enough to field close to a brigade.
The RN or USN could with some realistic PODs but the Dutch fleet (+army/air) is simply far to small to do anything but be a speed bump.
Depends on what you want to have happen, I don't think,
is entirely true. I think its more a case of pre FoF than Pre war and even then a RN wank with the Taranto strike and better luck with the KM would work? Other USN Pods would work but more with earlier civilian controlled decisions.
For a quick example of war time none ABS POD,
G kills S&G off Norway,
G and OTL kills RM at Taranto,
G and PoW + R if not many others make life for IJN interesting off DEI.....?
(many other lost RN ships could be available with little changes C, ARK, H, B, RO...etc even only a couple would quickly escalate the size of the IJN force needed)
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How ASB is it for De Geer to move to the Dutch East Indies and establish another Dutch government-in-exile?
You're most likely right about this.
So how many soldiers of the Dutch colonial forces could they evacuate?
There was a pretty independent streak in the DEI government. It was opposing any attempts to draw it in the European War out of fear of triggering a Japanese attack. A constitutional arguement for that independence. Constitution says/said (I'm not sure but I think it was changed post-WWII) that the government seat can't be moved out of the Netherlands. So not to London either. Then there is the fact that only the government moved to London, not the parliament. A case could be made that the DEI government was the only functional and legal government of the Kingdom.
Practically this was pretty impossible though. Without parliament Wilhelmina had a lot of power and in the end the Dutch population of the DEI was loyal to her and loyal to the motherland (to a large extent anyway). After 1940 money was raised in the DEI for the purchase of 40 Spitfires. Where were they used? In England, while the KNIL-ML was flying Brewster Buffalo's defending Java.
A De-Geer government in opposition to the government-in-exile also means that all lines with the Netherlands are cut and the DEI goes into the direction of the Axis. Practically and politically impossible.
What is the POD? Theoretically a lot of them can be evacuated. Politically it's very hard for much more than OTL.