WI - Queen Wilhelmina in Jakarta?

[twistedirregular]

In 1940, the Netherlands was overwhelmed and forced the Dutch government alongside Queen Wilhelmina to go into exile in London. I believe Prime Minister De Geer wished to flee to the Dutch East Indies but Wilhelmina refused on the basis that her health wouldn't allow it and she would rather go into exile in Canada with her daughter if she was forced to.

What if the Dutch Royal Family and government-in-exile had opted to go into exile in their Pacific colony?

 

[FillyofDelphi]

In 1940, the Netherlands was overwhelmed and forced the Dutch government alongside Queen Wilhelmina to go into exile in London. I believe Prime Minister De Geer wished to flee to the Dutch East Indies but Wilhelmina refused on the basis that her health wouldn't allow it and she would rather go into exile in Canada with her daughter if she was forced to.

What if the Dutch Royal Family and government-in-exiled had opted to go into exile in their Pacific colony?

Then they run the very real risk to life and limb from not only Indonesian nationalists, but getting caught up by the Japanese navy and taken hostage by Tokyo. This could trigger an interesting international crisis as administration of other Dutch posessions still held by the government upon capture are now uncoordinated and technically in a weird legalistic limbo as to who the authority is but most likely you just get martial law declared

 

[twistedirregular]

Then they run the very real risk to life and limb from not only Indonesian nationalists, but getting caught up by the Japanese navy and taken hostage by Tokyo. This could trigger an interesting international crisis as administration of other Dutch posessions still held by the government upon capture are now uncoordinated and technically in a weird legalistic limbo as to who the authority is but most likely you just get martial law declared

I always assumed in the case of a Japanese invasion of the DEI, that the Japanese would utilize the Dutch government as puppets so as to legitimize their occupation as protecting the interests of the Allies which could have an interesting impact on Allied relations with Tokyo. In the face of a potential Japanese invasion, could the exiled Dutch government try to hammer some kind of agreement with the nationalists? As for the other Dutch possessions in the Americas, could the Dutch ministers in consuls and colonies form some new Dutch government-in-exile with Princess Irene as their nominal Queen? Or would these colonies fall to British and/or American occupation similarly to Iceland or Greenland?

Would the Allies be able at stopping the Japanese advance further into the Pacific at the Dutch East Indies or is that ASB?

 

[jsb]

Is the best part of it simply that it saves a warship from the disaster as the DEI falls? Probably a Dutch CL but we could hope for PoW)

 

[twistedirregular]

Is the best part of it simply that it saves a warship from the disaster as the DEI falls? Probably a Dutch CL but we could hope for PoW)

Anything else?

 

[FillyofDelphi]

I always assumed in the case of a Japanese invasion of the DEI, that the Japanese would utilize the Dutch government as puppets so as to legitimize their occupation as protecting the interests of the Allies which could have an interesting impact on Allied relations with Tokyo. In the face of a potential Japanese invasion, could the exiled Dutch government try to hammer some kind of agreement with the nationalists? As for the other Dutch possessions in the Americas, could the Dutch ministers in consuls and colonies form some new Dutch government-in-exile with Princess Irene as their nominal Queen? Or would these colonies fall to British and/or American occupation similarly to Iceland or Greenland?

Would the Allies be able at stopping the Japanese advance further into the Pacific at the Dutch East Indies or is that ASB?

That kind of flies right in the face of their whole "Asia for Asians, kick out the colonial oppressors" theme of their propaganda though.

 

[twistedirregular]

That kind of flies right in the face of their whole "Asia for Asians, kick out the colonial oppressors" theme of their propaganda though.

You're right, I hadn't thought about that when writing my reply. I was wondering, could a mixed brigade of Dutch and Indonesian troops be formed in western Australia from any evacuated/escaped personnel? It could participate in the Allied liberation of the Netherlands and/or the Dutch East Indies.

Could the Allied Powers prevent the Dutch East Indies from falling to Japanese occupation?

 

[jsb]

Anything else?

No I was simply thinking that one of the warships would end up evacuating her and therefore not sunk. I don't think her presence or it not sinking will have much effect.

 

[twistedirregular]

No I was simply thinking that one of the warships would end up evacuating her and therefore not sunk. I don't think her presence or it not sinking will have much effect.

I assume you mean Queen Wilhelmina, correct? If so, why wouldn't the rest of the Dutch government be evacuated from the DEI?

 

[jsb]

I assume you mean Queen Wilhelmina, correct? If so, why wouldn't the rest of the Dutch government be evacuated from the DEI?

I'm simply assuming everything else is roughly a OTL, but yes I would assume that the ship will carry out anybody who can fit.

 

[twistedirregular]

I'm simply assuming everything else is roughly a OTL, but yes I would assume that the ship will carry out anybody who can fit.

I don't know much about the Dutch naval capabilities in the Pacific so I apologize if it seems I don't know anything - how many Dutch and/or Indonesian troops can be evacuated on this ship?

 

[jsb]

Very few, realistically it would be civil servants and civilians who would be brought out (simply due to it happening early on before the fall was definite)..... depends on what ship I was just being a bit of a joke and suggesting that R or PoW would end up free to do it and therefore save them as this is the biggest win for the allies over OTL, otherwise its just one light old Dutch CL not a big deal.

 

[twistedirregular]

Very few, realistically it would be civil servants and civilians who would be brought out (simply due to it happening early on before the fall was definite)..... depends on what ship I was just being a bit of a joke and suggesting that R or PoW would end up free to do it and therefore save them as this is the biggest win for the allies over OTL, otherwise its just one light old Dutch CL not a big deal.

Could there be an evacuation akin to Dunkirk for the Dutch and/or any other Allied forces based in the Dutch East Indies?

 

[jsb]

Could there be an evacuation akin to Dunkirk for the Dutch and/or any other Allied forces based in the Dutch East Indies?

Unlikely,
- Dunkirk was within fighter command range to contest air DEI was not covered
- Dunkirk was close to GB with all the shipping that implies, cross channel ports etc
- Dunkirk force was much better than the defenders of DEI in terms of training and moral, ie mostly full time professional army withdrawing to home
- IJN was much more powerful relatively to KM compared to defenders navy

So not going to work IMO.

I think the Queen is simply ordered onto a CL early on to be taken to AUS/India, by army commander and the defeat goes just like OTL apart from that.

 

[FillyofDelphi]

Could there be an evacuation akin to Dunkirk for the Dutch and/or any other Allied forces based in the Dutch East Indies?

No. Not enough modern civilian ships with the kind of range or sufficient air cover available from the sparsely populated Northern Australian coast.

 

[Zheng He]

Could the Allied Powers prevent the Dutch East Indies from falling to Japanese occupation?

I recommend you read fester's TL - Keynes' Cruisers...

 

[twistedirregular]

Could the Allied Powers prevent the Dutch East Indies from falling to Japanese occupation?

I recommend you read fester's TL - Keynes' Cruisers...

Could you link it to me?

 

[Zheng He]

Could you link it to me?

It's going to take you awhile but it is one of the best TL's on this forum - https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/keynes-cruisers.388788/

 

[dcontreras]

I would think they would want to be in closer proximity to the Netherlands in Europe to show them some kind of support. If they had to leave Britain, perhaps Louisbourg in St. Maarten/St. Martin in the Caribbean or Dutch Surinam on the Northern coast of South America, leaving hr son-in-law Prince Berhnard as a "regent" or military/government in exile presence in London.

 

[twistedirregular]

I would think they would want to be in closer proximity to the Netherlands in Europe to show them some kind of support. If they had to leave Britain, perhaps Louisbourg in St. Maarten/St. Martin in the Caribbean or Dutch Surinam on the Northern coast of South America, leaving hr son-in-law Prince Berhnard as a "regent" or military/government in exile presence in London.

So is it implausible for the Dutch government-in-exile to withdraw to the Dutch East Indies? Your reasoning seems to make sense if the Dutch are for some reason forced to leave London, perhaps a peace between Britain and the Axis which forces the Dutch to relocate to their colonies in the Americas or the Pacific?