WI: Queen Victoria at 100
- Thread starter Emperor Norton I
- Start date
Is the significance here that she reigns through World War I, and her impact as a national icon during that conflict?
Otherwise, I'm not sure what effect there would be on her living to 100, since she was a figurehead, with little or no influence on policy.
Otherwise, I'm not sure what effect there would be on her living to 100, since she was a figurehead, with little or no influence on policy.
I suppose in terms of historical perspective, it would put World War I into the Victorian Era, which might somewhat change the associations that later generations have with the word "Victorian".
What has happened to the future King George V? If he doesn't die before the Queen (why would he?) he would succeed his grandmother.
Edward predeceasing his mother does not change the line of succession unless he dies before having children
Ultimate Paragon
Banned
I could see that happening. Pope Pius X may not have been able to prevent World War I, but I think the "Grandmother of Europe" might have a fair shot.
Not to mention history is changed from 1901 onward just from the factor that if you rewind and playout history infinite times, it will be different each time. We're rewinding and playing out history again, with the scenario change. The assassination of Franz Ferdinand was such a freak incident as it was.
There's certainly the setting for world war if Europe doesn't reel back the alliance systems and stops having the world powers at one another's throats. But it would be different, and Victoria (as said) could defuse it as the Grandmother of Europe that she was since it was mostly her family that were on the thrones of the feuding nations.
There's certainly the setting for world war if Europe doesn't reel back the alliance systems and stops having the world powers at one another's throats. But it would be different, and Victoria (as said) could defuse it as the Grandmother of Europe that she was since it was mostly her family that were on the thrones of the feuding nations.
I think a fascinating thing is that this could open up a World War after Victoria's death which has the same problems of outdated military methods with advanced weaponry, except with even more outdated military methods with even more advanced weaponry (depending on how military thinking and training evolves and develops in the lead up).
So if we're playing with the idea that a centenarian Victoria was able to stop (or at least delay) WWI, then we are looking at a Europe that is still a mish-mash of military alliances.
HOWEVER, the multi-ethnic and unstable Austro-Hungarian Empire would have been forced to deal with the fact that it's current form was unviable and if it wouldn't engage in reform. It would face revolution.
Russia in the meanwhile went through the February Revolution, and with Lenin stuck in exile the 'October' Revolution failed. But the attempts at creating a republic went nowhere and Michael wouldn't accept the throne under any circumstances. So Victoria along with the rest of Europe convinced the Russian government to ignore Nicholas's abdication decree barring his son from the succession and place Alexei Romanov on the throne as Alexander IV.
A marriage was arranged for him with a British Princess/Noblewoman and she bore him a son named Viktor that didn't have hemophilia.
I'm not sure if anything would change for the likes of Italy or Spain (still in it's Civil War), but the United States would be very much a quiet Great Power, a slumbering eagle just waiting for someone to wake it up...
HOWEVER, the multi-ethnic and unstable Austro-Hungarian Empire would have been forced to deal with the fact that it's current form was unviable and if it wouldn't engage in reform. It would face revolution.
Russia in the meanwhile went through the February Revolution, and with Lenin stuck in exile the 'October' Revolution failed. But the attempts at creating a republic went nowhere and Michael wouldn't accept the throne under any circumstances. So Victoria along with the rest of Europe convinced the Russian government to ignore Nicholas's abdication decree barring his son from the succession and place Alexei Romanov on the throne as Alexander IV.
A marriage was arranged for him with a British Princess/Noblewoman and she bore him a son named Viktor that didn't have hemophilia.
I'm not sure if anything would change for the likes of Italy or Spain (still in it's Civil War), but the United States would be very much a quiet Great Power, a slumbering eagle just waiting for someone to wake it up...
I also see Victoria absolutely insisting on giving refuge to the Romanov's if they fall from power in Russia.
Another thing that intrigues me, though I don't know if her influence is this profound, but would she prevent Britain's Entente Cordiale with France in 1904? I ask only because it seems to me that event was a very large break with historic British policy of remaining neutral on the continent. Without a formal Entente, a firm declaration from Britain that she will guarantee the independence of Belgium against any power (aka Gladstone's approach in 1870) might make Germany abandon any plans to invade France through Belgium.
Another thing that intrigues me, though I don't know if her influence is this profound, but would she prevent Britain's Entente Cordiale with France in 1904? I ask only because it seems to me that event was a very large break with historic British policy of remaining neutral on the continent. Without a formal Entente, a firm declaration from Britain that she will guarantee the independence of Belgium against any power (aka Gladstone's approach in 1870) might make Germany abandon any plans to invade France through Belgium.
Eh, the last time this exact same W-I was posed, it got some quite definite responses about the hypothetical ancient Queen greatly influencing British cabinet policy, greatly influencing the Kaiser, plus there were a couple of handwave mini-TLs about dramatic things happening in areas outside the permit of any Victoria-related govt system.
This time, I have to admit, I do like the sound of this idea that even if her continued existence does somehow prevent 1914, then at least the great powers stil go to hell in a handbasket in 1919.
This time, I have to admit, I do like the sound of this idea that even if her continued existence does somehow prevent 1914, then at least the great powers stil go to hell in a handbasket in 1919.
Son of Leman Russ
Banned
Willy didn't do anything with his austro-hungarian ally thanks to grandma victoria.
Nicky drop his support on Serbia like hot potato.
The war of 1914 will be fought by French-Serbian alliance vs Austro Hungary, result in breakup of Austro Hungary, and the now bro-fist Willy and Nicky race to annex the remains of Austro-Hungary , with some choice cuts reserved for British influences (sanctioned by Granny because the destruction of AH could means prolonged war and destabilizations)
Austria is most likely get early Anschluss with Germany
Ukrainian lands is likely end up in Russia.
Britain will back up some Habsburgs, or any German prince to be new Hungarian monarch.
98 year old Victoria makes the Tsar 'get over' the effects of his disastrous wartime stewardship?
95 year old Victoria makes the Kaiser renege on that 45-year-old alliance Berlin had with Austro-Hungary?
All the interpower alliance politics that were born while she was still alive, they get rolled back simply because she doesn't die at the beginning of the 20th century?
Who am I to criticise the most excellent SandBox gaming taking place on this thread.
95 year old Victoria makes the Kaiser renege on that 45-year-old alliance Berlin had with Austro-Hungary?
All the interpower alliance politics that were born while she was still alive, they get rolled back simply because she doesn't die at the beginning of the 20th century?
Who am I to criticise the most excellent SandBox gaming taking place on this thread.
I thought I had seen this before
Glad I'm not going mad ... or madder then I already am lolWWI will not happen in Victoria's life time, no one will declare war on her in fear of being attacked by her grandchildren and none of the grandchildren will attack poor old nanny of Great Britain
Why has it jumped away from Prince Edward to Prince Arthur, when Prince Edward already had a son, Prince George? It would be like Prince Charles dying and then Queen Elizabeth II but instead of Prince William getting the Throne, Prince Andrew gets the job
But if Prince Arthur, was to be made King, I personally believe he, would use the regal name of William as no monarch of Britain would dare be called "King Arthur" lol. If his son still develops cancer, which is plausable, cancer doesn't stop if your heir to the Throne, look at poor Kiaser Frederick III of Germany. In this case his son Prince Alistar would be crowned and not be drunk in the snow dying of nuemonia in the snow, if he does die still at 28, would be succeeded by his cousin, Alexander Mountbatten.
Victoria wouldn't send a nasty telegram to Grandson Willy, it would be a polite little telegram from nanny britain, saying, she does not want him hanging around those naughty Hasburg kids getting into trouble - Followed by a new wooly jumper for winter
Fair shot, she wouldnt even need to say a thing, no one will fight while nanny britain is alive.
I have this little cartoon of this old lady sitting at the head of the table talking nicely with the children, who are all being polite and smiling at one another but under the table they are kicking one another with out the old lady realising.
It ends with the old lady dying head first into the soup, with the children jumping at each other too quickly to realise they have lost Nanny
until its too late A World War in 1920, when every one is already on tender hooks, this will be a long and bloody war.
Why would they be mish-mash over 20 years of diplomatic talks alliance and trade partners could be changed.
Will Victoria still have influence over her Prime ministers?
Most likely, after all the A-H Empire was a fossil of the state in 1914, what will 6 more years of stagnant plodding along do to it, it may ever reform itself to allow devolution in Serbia, resulting in the War being avoided.
Will a revolution happen without WWI? Would Victoria not open her home to her grand-daughter, her grand-son-in-law the Tsar and her Great-grandchildren?
Unlikely as Alexander is already a carrier, so all monarchs of russia will sadly be affected by hemophilia until it is watered down years from 1920.
I always forget about America, if WWI is advoided it would have a lot less influence of Europe then it has had in the past - and no lady liberty.
Victoria very much loved France, especially Napoleon III who she visited alot when he was exiled to Chistlehurst, so she would most likely be fine with a the formal Entente, more so if it protects Belgium, the homeland of Prince Albert.
Not sure what you mean as the Statue of Liberty was constructed many years before WWI. It was completed in 1886.
At any rate a WWI avoided (or at least delayed) would result in America having most of it's interests being in Asia and South/Central America. It would lead to a lot more friction with Japan, maybe even a Japanese-American War in the Pacific.
Now if that war was starting (or still going on) when Victoria died and WWI broke out soon after it could lead to a victory for Germany and it's allies since America wouldn't be able to bail Britain and France out.
There's also the fact that Britain had allied with Japan in opposition to Russia. I'm not sure of the years that happened or if it still would have happened, but it would have put Britain on the side of Japan if war broke out between Japan and the United States, if that alliance still happened. Even if there were not a shooting war between Britain and the United States, there would still be tension.
1. Edward VII's official visit to France was significant in influencing French public opinion in favor of the alliance with Britain, so that might change.
2. Britain might be more disposed to accept the Romanovs in exile, since Alexandra and the children were direct descendants of Victoria.
Can't think of anything else.
2. Britain might be more disposed to accept the Romanovs in exile, since Alexandra and the children were direct descendants of Victoria.
Can't think of anything else.