WI: Qing expands Green Standard Army

The POD is in the Revolt of the Three Feudatories, where the Eight Banners failed fairly miserable. Instead of withdrawing them, the emperor decides to plunge all of them in, certain that they can't lose to the Han.

Well, they do lose to the Han, and the Banners are all wiped out. Frustrated, the emperor sends in the Green Standard Army as IOTL...

And it works!

Impressed, the emperor finally gets rid of the Banners and creates an army for all Chinese people who enlist.

By the way, this emperor is the Kangxi Emperor, the dude who continued Sinification with the Kangxi Dictionary.
 
Unless the Manchus fully sinicized,this is not an option.It's like asking the British Empire to employ Indian sepoys only for the defense of the empire and scrap the British units.
 
Unless the Manchus fully sinicized,this is not an option.It's like asking the British Empire to employ Indian sepoys only for the defense of the empire and scrap the British units.

Isn't that different, though? China was more vital to the Qing than India was to the British. The Qing capital was at Beijing, while the British capital was at London.

The Qing were reliant on China on a scale that the British couldn't hope to match. I certainly don't see why the Qing couldn't try it.

And I don't see why the Manchus can't become fully sinicized. They have two hundred years until the British arrive, and I'm certain that's long enough.
 
Isn't that different, though? China was more vital to the Qing than India was to the British. The Qing capital was at Beijing, while the British capital was at London.

The Qing were reliant on China on a scale that the British couldn't hope to match. I certainly don't see why the Qing couldn't try it.

And I don't see why the Manchus can't become fully sinicized. They have two hundred years until the British arrive, and I'm certain that's long enough.
Even more of a problem for the Qing than the British.You see,the sepoys,despite being lumped together as 'Indians',were from different ethnicities.The British can always rely on divide and conquer.They can always just heads back to `Britain if things go south.The Qing on the other hand are vastly outnumbered by the Chinese.They were literally spread out over China surrounded by a sea of Han.They were much like Apartheid South Africa to be honest.They never saw themselves as Han (despite taking in certain parts of Han culture like the embracement of Confucian ideals)and took numerous steps both to secure dominance over the Han majority and to segregate themselves from them,like having specific quartering areas for the Manchus(and Mongols) and banning interracial marriage.Manchus were also privileged under the legal system if someone committed a crime for example.Because of this,the Manchus were constantly fearful of being overthrown by the Han majority.Unless they see themselves as Han,the same way the Xianbei did,they will constantly need guarantees against the Han majority.This means that outsourcing their entire defense to the Han Green Standard army isn't an option unless they fully sinicized during the reign of Kangxi.There's a reason why both Apartheid South Africa(whites,unlike blacks,had universal conscription) and the Manchus attempt to base their entire military on units formed by the elite minority group.
 
Last edited:
Even more of a problem for the Qing than the British.You see,the sepoys,despite being lumped together as 'Indians',were from different ethnicities.The British can always rely on divide and conquer.They can always just heads back to `Britain if things go south.The Qing on the other hand are vastly outnumbered by the Chinese.They were literally spread out over China surrounded by a sea of Han.They were much like Apartheid South Africa to be honest.They never saw themselves as Han (despite taking in certain parts of Han culture like the embracement of Confucian ideals)and took numerous steps both to secure dominance over the Han majority and to segregate themselves from them,like having specific quartering areas for the Manchus(and Mongols) and banning interracial marriage.Manchus were also privileged under the legal system if someone committed a crime for example.Because of this,the Manchus were constantly fearful of being overthrown by the Han majority.Unless they see themselves as Han,the same way the Xianbei did,they will constantly need guarantees against the Han majority.This means that outsourcing their entire defense to the Han Green Standard army isn't an option unless they fully sinicized during the reign of Kangxi.There's a reason why both Apartheid South Africa(whites,unlike blacks,had universal conscription) and the Manchus attempt to base their entire military on units formed by the elite minority group.

Why can't they see themselves as Han like the Xianbei?
 
Top