wi Pyotr Stolypin not assassinated

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Deleted member 14881

as it said on the title
what are the ramifications on russia
 
The peasants in the countryside have slightly more individual landholders to force back onto the commune when the Decree on Land gets promulgated.
 
Stolypin was a spent political force when he was assassinated, so nothing changes beyond there being slightly less animosity to the narodnik-type terrorists... although without Stolypin they might end up assassinating someone else, bringing us nicely back to square one.
 
Did you read Solzhenitsyn's book on him, August 1914? If not, I highly recommend it - it's a pretty good introduction to the people and roblems of the era - and to others interested in the Russia and the Revolution.

It'd depend on what he did after, of course. I once tried to write a memorial TL that would've been what I thought would've been the best case for Russia to rescue the country from its totalitarian OTL destination. But I didn't get far.

The idea I came up with I thought was most promising was to have him, after his inevtably soon fall from power, start and recruit a new generation of leadership to a new, conservative political party that, like the American Republicans and the British Tories, would've encompassed broad wings of conservatism, including extreme royalists, and given an healthy Duma opposition to the Communists and sadly outnumbered social democrats. Democracy needs at least two strong parties to work well, and only the Commies were really strong.

I don't know how realistic the idea of him starting a new party is, since he grew up in an unchecked monarchy, but at least, recruiting a new generation of similiarly ept moderate royalists as himself does seem pretty like him, and even that'd be a huge help.
 
It'd depend on what he did after, of course. I once tried to write a memorial TL that would've been what I thought would've been the best case for Russia to rescue the country from its totalitarian OTL destination. But I didn't get far.

The idea I came up with I thought was most promising was to have him, after his inevtably soon fall from power, start and recruit a new generation of leadership to a new, conservative political party that, like the American Republicans and the British Tories, would've encompassed broad wings of conservatism, including extreme royalists, and given an healthy Duma opposition to the Communists and sadly outnumbered social democrats. Democracy needs at least two strong parties to work well, and only the Commies were really strong.

I don't know how realistic the idea of him starting a new party is, since he grew up in an unchecked monarchy, but at least, recruiting a new generation of similiarly ept moderate royalists as himself does seem pretty like him, and even that'd be a huge help.

Interesting idea. I must point though, that Duma at the time of Stolypin's death was already heavy right wing (with a lot of moderates). Social-Democrats and other leftists were minority and bolsheviks (as part of SD) were almost non-existent. They came to power not through parlamentary victory, you know :)

Unfortunately Stolypin was politically dead at this time. But he could return later when situation grew worse. What he could do is another matter. Probably, nothing much different.
 

Stalker

Banned
Stolypin was a spent political force when he was assassinated, so nothing changes beyond there being slightly less animosity to the narodnik-type terrorists... although without Stolypin they might end up assassinating someone else, bringing us nicely back to square one.
By that time there's no 'Narodnaya Volya" (People's Will). There are SRs who are mainly using terrorism and Bolshevicks who use bank robbery as the part of their financing.
Stolypin is not quite a spent force because he was the only remaining on top who had strong will. Somebody, however, thought him to be 'spent'. That's why a rat among the SRs, Dmitry Bogrov, got free access to Stolypin's balkony in the Brodsky Theatre in Kiev.
Of course, Stolypin would not have lasted on his post as a Prime-minister for long but he'd have ramained a very charismatic and strong person able to organise a right-wing party that could become a ruling party. Actually, Stolypin had done that before fostering the outflaw from the constitutional democrates (who hated him for his Agrarian reform) and Octobrists and helping to shape in 1909 the National party headed by Balashov. After the retirement he would obviously have become its leader in the Duma.
 
By that time there's no 'Narodnaya Volya" (People's Will). There are SRs who are mainly using terrorism...
The Social Revolutionaries program was heavily inspired by/similar to the narodniks, The SRs seem to have opted to pursue politics through the Duma rather than terrorism. So it's not entirely unfair to typify an SR who engages in terrorism as a 'narodnik'.

The possibility that Bogrov might have in fact been acting on behalf of far right elements (he was apparently okhrana) suggests that no matter what Stolypin does, he could end up dead.

...start and recruit a new generation of leadership to a new, conservative political party...
Assuming he isn't killed, we now have two problems
- In 1911 the Duma voted against an expansion of his programs. So there isn't a great pool of support waiting for him.
- If it isn't complete by 1914, it won't work. The resulting economic and political shakeup that follows will result in the February and October revolutions.
The problem with Stolypin forging a new party or pool of supporters is he will be starting from the ground up. He can't change much in three years that way.

...only the Commies were really strong.
The SRs ended up being the most popular party at the Constituent Assembly from memory... and are not Communists. Socialistic perhaps, but not Communist. The Bolsheviks and Mensheviks couldn't really secure that big a vote because of their lack of a rural base.
 

Stalker

Banned
The Social Revolutionaries program was heavily inspired by/similar to the narodniks, The SRs seem to have opted to pursue politics through the Duma rather than terrorism. So it's not entirely unfair to typify an SR who engages in terrorism as a 'narodnik'.
SR - is the acronym for the Social Revolutionaries.;) They were in the 2nd Duma but they were divided into several groups (left-wing SRs, right-wing SRs, the SR Combat Organization whose particular task was terrorism against top persons of the Empire. All that went shoulder to shoulder with one another.
The possibility that Bogrov might have in fact been acting on behalf of far right elements (he was apparently okhrana) suggests that no matter what Stolypin does, he could end up dead.
Dmitry Bogrov was an SR as well as the "rat" to the "okhrana". He entered the theatre at that day in his capacity as the secret agent of the "okhrana" but acted typically as the SR. The version of the Stolypin's assasination you mentioned exists but I cannot say for sure it's the likeliest version.

Assuming he isn't killed, we now have two problems
- In 1911 the Duma voted against an expansion of his programs. So there isn't a great pool of support waiting for him.
- If it isn't complete by 1914, it won't work. The resulting economic and political shakeup that follows will result in the February and October revolutions.
The problem with Stolypin forging a new party or pool of supporters is he will be starting from the ground up. He can't change much in three years that way.
As I said above he had already had a Party he could lead to the new Duma elections. That means that neither Rodzyanko, nor Guchkov might become central persons or have massive support in the Duma in February 1917. That means we might not see Nicholas II's abdication even if the bread revolt starts in St. Petersburg.

The SRs ended up being the most popular party at the Constituent Assembly from memory... and are not Communists. Socialistic perhaps, but not Communist. The Bolsheviks and Mensheviks couldn't really secure that big a vote because of their lack of a rural base.
That's why the Bolshies allied with the left-wing SRs to form their first Government after dissipating the Constituent Assembly. Having support from left-SRs they could carry out their second coup d'etat.
 
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