WI: Prussia was defeated? 7 Years War

What if the Miracle of the House of Brandenburg never happened? Instead the Prussians are defeated by France, Austria, Russia and Sweden. What would be the aftermath and the results/course of the rest of the world?
 
What if the Miracle of the House of Brandenburg never happened? Instead the Prussians are defeated by France, Austria, Russia and Sweden. What would be the aftermath and the results/course of the rest of the world?
Well I think Britain still wins in the North American Theatre of the war, as Louisbourg has already fallen, and Quebec will likely fall before parliament decides on whether or not to keep fighting after Prussia's defeat.

Wandiwash would not have happened yet, so France could remain a major force in Southern India, though Plassey has happened so the British will still end the war with the addition of Bengal.

Without a Prussian great power there likely isn't a partition of Poland, though a resurgent Sweden could possibly fill that role. Now flip a coin to decide if Austria and Russia go to war against each other or make a pact to divide the Ottoman's european territory.
 
Last edited:
Perhaps this would result with the French retaking their former colonies in the Americas during the ARW because without the Seven Years War being as devastating the French would probably still be a strong power. Relations between the US and France would be interesting.
 
What if the Miracle of the House of Brandenburg never happened? Instead the Prussians are defeated by France, Austria, Russia and Sweden. What would be the aftermath and the results/course of the rest of the world?

There would most probably be no consequence outside of Europe.

OTL, Prussia was occupied to a large extent and militarily defeated. The miracle was not a military one, but a diplomatic one : Elizabeth I of Russia died in 1762 and her successor, Peter III, was such an admirer of Prussia that he decided to spare Prussia any territorial loss.

But for Britain, Prussia was just a tool. It was almost the same concerning Hanover.

Britain would probably make no concession in India, America or the Caribbean to save Prussia. Prussia was nothing but cannon fodder for Britain.
 
There would most probably be no consequence outside of Europe.

OTL, Prussia was occupied to a large extent and militarily defeated. The miracle was not a military one, but a diplomatic one : Elizabeth I of Russia died in 1762 and her successor, Peter III, was such an admirer of Prussia that he decided to spare Prussia any territorial loss.

But for Britain, Prussia was just a tool. It was almost the same concerning Hanover.

Britain would probably make no concession in India, America or the Caribbean to save Prussia. Prussia was nothing but cannon fodder for Britain.
You are probably right. It basicly proves that Britain is an unreliable ally (something the Dutch for example already knew). If France plays its cards right (by not making too agressive demands in the peace treaty), it can completely isolate Britain and possibly even form an ati-British Alliance. It would mean though it has to make certain that the other countries in Europe would see France not as too big a threat. So it can't make too much demands, it can't appear too agressive. It would have to give up short term gain for long term gain.
 
You are probably right. It basicly proves that Britain is an unreliable ally (something the Dutch for example already knew). If France plays its cards right (by not making too agressive demands in the peace treaty), it can completely isolate Britain and possibly even form an ati-British Alliance. It would mean though it has to make certain that the other countries in Europe would see France not as too big a threat. So it can't make too much demands, it can't appear too agressive. It would have to give up short term gain for long term gain.

Well, this is still what happened OTL. Britain isolated itself after the 7 years war. But this had little to do with the OTL relationship with Prussia or with the fate of Prussia at the end of the war. It mainly was because of its unilateralist behavior on the diplomatic stage and its maritime bullying of other nations.

I think that as OTL, in such an alternate TL it would be the continental powers that defeated Prussia that would make the decisive decisions.

I hardly can see why Britain would sacrifice its national interests gains and its colonial conquests to keep Prussia unharmed. Especially since it was mostly Russia and Austria that defeated Prussia while Britain’s colonial conquests were at the expense of France.

If there was no Peter III in 1762-1763, Elizabeth I living longer, and if Russia and Austria remained consistent with their goals and emasculated Prussia, there is no way Austria would renounce getting Silesia back and no way Britain could convince Austria not to get Silesia back.
 
You are probably right. It basicly proves that Britain is an unreliable ally (something the Dutch for example already knew). If France plays its cards right (by not making too agressive demands in the peace treaty), it can completely isolate Britain and possibly even form an ati-British Alliance. It would mean though it has to make certain that the other countries in Europe would see France not as too big a threat. So it can't make too much demands, it can't appear too agressive. It would have to give up short term gain for long term gain.

That was OTL. Britain negotiated her own peace and Prussia didn't forgive her, leaving Britain isolated for the ARW.
 
You are probably right. It basicly proves that Britain is an unreliable ally (something the Dutch for example already knew). If France plays its cards right (by not making too agressive demands in the peace treaty), it can completely isolate Britain and possibly even form an ati-British Alliance. It would mean though it has to make certain that the other countries in Europe would see France not as too big a threat. So it can't make too much demands, it can't appear too agressive. It would have to give up short term gain for long term gain.

Austria and Kaunitz learned this lesson (during the war of Austrian succession) and opted for France instead in the first place. Thinking about it Brittain did a pretty good job to avoid a continental bloc ever forming.

Maybe because it was never a direct threat to any of the continental powers. What I mean is none had to fear about Brittain coming and grabbing this or that chunk of land in Europe thats theirs or they want while one or more of the other continental powers alway had this aim.

Regarding OP: See the second (1757) and third treaty of Versailles (1758) In EU Austria gets Silesia and the rest of Prussia is divided between Russia, Austria and Sweden. I also expect Saxony to get something. Russia probably the Kingdom of Prussia (Eastprussia) and Sweden gets back Vorpommern or maybe all of Pommern. In the end I think Brandenburg would be reduced to little more than its core.

This would leave Poland completly dominated by Russia. Austria would greatly strengthen its position in Germany and it retains its Lowland territories as well. If they still offer to exchange it for Bavaria later as OTL there would be no one to stop it which would further strengthen the Austrian position in Germany. Sweden I dont see becoming a significant Great Power again. France is still humilated and still loses outside of Europe as well. The french-austian alliance wouldnt last as long as OTL: Austria got everything it wanted while France is the looser. Even if they still got the austrian lowlands as per 2nd treaty of Versailles its only as a puppet state under the spanish bourbon while they lost badly oversees. That means a lot of resentment. I dont see them avoiding the revolution.

The most interesting part would be Poland and if Austria and Russia can work together or it will come to blows. I cant imagine Russia not annexing huge chunks of Poland. Austria may or may not annex Galicia. But i dont think Poland would completly disappear like OTL. Ottomans would be pushed back like OTL maybe more if Austria and Russia can agree on focusing on them to divert attention of the more problematic Poland.
 
The French army invading Hannover had already been defeated without Prussian help and the French finances weren't in a position to field another one. The only way Hannover falls is if the Austrians do it, and I can imagine this will start to cause concerns between Austria and France about each other becoming the main rival, so they might agree to end the war. Also, George III didn't give a damn about Hannover, and neither he nor parliament would swap British colonial gains for it.

The main effect would be for Russia to gain East Prussia and start to be a major player in German affairs. This will likely frighten the French and Austrians into continuing their alliance, with possibly an Austrian Netherlands-Bavaria deal down the line. Poland would not be partitioned, but fall to gradual Russian annexation with no one in a position to stop her. If Austria gets Bavaria along with Silesia, she will have more Germans to fight off minority demands later.
 
There would most probably be no consequence outside of Europe.

OTL, Prussia was occupied to a large extent and militarily defeated. The miracle was not a military one, but a diplomatic one : Elizabeth I of Russia died in 1762 and her successor, Peter III, was such an admirer of Prussia that he decided to spare Prussia any territorial loss.

But for Britain, Prussia was just a tool. It was almost the same concerning Hanover.

Britain would probably make no concession in India, America or the Caribbean to save Prussia. Prussia was nothing but cannon fodder for Britain.
There was two Miracles of House of Brandenburg, first was a military miracle, which I accidentally forgot to say this was the Miracle that didn't happen. Also Hannover could be a negotiation piece against Britain so that France could keep part or some of its colonies. French Revolution could still happen depending on the Treaty, and future events, decisions and actions.
 
There was two Miracles of House of Brandenburg, first was a military miracle, which I accidentally forgot to say this was the Miracle that didn't happen. Also Hannover could be a negotiation piece against Britain so that France could keep part or some of its colonies. French Revolution could still happen depending on the Treaty, and future events, decisions and actions.
Actually Hanover is back in British hands by the PoD, though a combined Austro-French invasion could possibly kick them out again once Prussia falls.
 
Top