WI: Prussia occupies Hanover earlier?

Is it possible. Say Frederick doesn't fight the Bavarian succession war or there is no war at all. Even with it actually, he can still use the opportunity while the British are fighting in America and against the French, Spanish and eventually the Dutch? What would encourage him and is there any use of it? Yes, it would help somewhat in connecting his possessions in West Germany with Brandenburg and it's a decent piece of land, economically worthy. Of course, Prussian trade fleet and the navy (I don't know anything about the state of their navy at that moment) would probably be quickly destroyed.
And would it help take off some pressure off France? Maybe a renewal of alliances? Would it mean a sooner peace with U.S. to fight Prussia?
The problem is there needs to be a good reason for this, though there is a good opportunity and probably they were looking at some nice results in case of a victory.
So, please comment and tell me what you know! :)
 
I'd say that's a bit cynical even for Frederick. Not to mention counterproductive. Prussia had decent relations with Britain and still relatively poor ones with Austria. It had just managed to get itself ionto a position where it could credibly "stand up for the little powers" in the HRE against the big bullying emperor. It depends on the fragiule goodwill of its eastern neighbours to pull off the Polish land grab. Simply going in and nobbling a medium-sized state because it could would be a very bad move, even assuming that it workls. Which is not a given.

Prussia's army in the 1770s/1780s is not at the top of its game. It would still be able to walk all over Hanover, of course, but not do that and hope to secure its other borders. Austria still bears a grudge, and Britain's pockets would still be deep enough to spring for subsidies to encourage the recovery of Silesia. Russia is unengaged and might equally be bribable, if nothing else, with a little extra helping of Poland. I do not think London would simply allow this to stand, even if they could not stop it themselves. And there is no reason for France to stand up for Prussia in the peace talks. IN all likelihood, the attempt would be doomed to ignominious failure as Prussia bogs down in a half-hearted two-front war that bleeds its treasury and ends with nothing much changing.

I don't see it happening.
 
Very hardly.

Everybody outside Germany wanted Germany to remain divided and week. And almost everybody in Germany wanted it too, except the Habsburgs and the Prussian Hohenzollern.

As soon as the Habsburgs emerged as capable of reversing the multi-secular trend (since the late 12th century) to a weakening of the imperial/kingly power in Germany, that is as soon as the early 16th century, there was a wide international coalition to prevent such an achievement.

This principle was some kind of sanctified in the Westphalia treaties.
 
Is it possible. Say Frederick doesn't fight the Bavarian succession war or there is no war at all. Even with it actually, he can still use the opportunity while the British are fighting in America and against the French, Spanish and eventually the Dutch? What would encourage him and is there any use of it? Yes, it would help somewhat in connecting his possessions in West Germany with Brandenburg and it's a decent piece of land, economically worthy. Of course, Prussian trade fleet and the navy (I don't know anything about the state of their navy at that moment) would probably be quickly destroyed.
And would it help take off some pressure off France? Maybe a renewal of alliances? Would it mean a sooner peace with U.S. to fight Prussia?
The problem is there needs to be a good reason for this, though there is a good opportunity and probably they were looking at some nice results in case of a victory.
So, please comment and tell me what you know! :)

When the Hannover and Britain are still in a personal union? I think it's a good way for Prussia to get ganged up on and smashed.
 
Is it possible. Say Frederick doesn't fight the Bavarian succession war or there is no war at all. Even with it actually, he can still use the opportunity while the British are fighting in America and against the French, Spanish and eventually the Dutch? What would encourage him and is there any use of it? Yes, it would help somewhat in connecting his possessions in West Germany with Brandenburg and it's a decent piece of land, economically worthy. Of course, Prussian trade fleet and the navy (I don't know anything about the state of their navy at that moment) would probably be quickly destroyed.
And would it help take off some pressure off France? Maybe a renewal of alliances? Would it mean a sooner peace with U.S. to fight Prussia?
The problem is there needs to be a good reason for this, though there is a good opportunity and probably they were looking at some nice results in case of a victory.
So, please comment and tell me what you know! :)


Maybe no diplomatic revolution so it is France and Prussia against Austria and Britian. The Prussian and French forces crush the Hannover and the Austrian Netherlands. The Prussians then take Saxony and Hannover while France takes the Austrian Netherlands and maybe is promised some border areas of the HRE.
 
Frederick was no doubt an opportunist, to be sure.

However, he was also shaken after starting the 7 Years War and only with several major streaks of luck (Austrian and Russian inability to cooperate, France incompentantly managing the Hanover campaign and never really opening a wester front, the death of Elizabeth, etc) kept him on his throne. He spent the rest of his reign trying to stabilize his country.

A naked assault on Hanover would make permanent enemies of every nation in the HRE.

France may be happy if it distracts Britain in the short term but they see the danger in a bloated Prussia (see 1870) as well and are happy to maintain the balance of power.

No doubt the Partitions of Poland would be off the table.

It is not inconceivable that France might find a good way to work this:
1. Prussia conquers Hanover (this also cuts off the supply of mercenaries from the Northern German states).
2. France gets Austrian NEtherlands
3. Austria gets Bavaria after death of Duke Maximilian.
4. The Wittelsbach heirs get Rheinish Prussia as compensation.

Even this is unlikely.

Maria Theresa hated Frederick with a passion and wanted nothing that would augment his power (with reason, per OTL history).

Neither Prussia nor Austria wanted a war at this point.
 

raharris1973

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Some think that even if there had been no diplomatic revolution and Prussia stayed aligned with France, British subsidies could and would be enough to fund Austrian and Russian forces capable of beating Prussia. I don't exactly see it that way, but some do.
 
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