Is it plausible for northern protestant part of Germany, in the 1500 to 1700, to secede from the HRE and form its own nation. Perhaps the Hapsburgsare are more harsh and some of the protestant anger can be directed at them.

How would become the monarch of this nation and what kind of government would it adopt
 
Is it plausible for northern protestant part of Germany, in the 1500 to 1700, to secede from the HRE and form its own nation. Perhaps the Hapsburgsare are more harsh and some of the protestant anger can be directed at them.

How would become the monarch of this nation and what kind of government would it adopt

"Protestant" at the time was, perhaps even more than it is today, a very broad and vague label, with the Northern princes being concerned with their religious freedom in many cases more as part of political power (In terms of the confiscation of Church property/bishoprics, administrative positions within the Empire, inheritance, ect.) and their "German Liberties" vs. the centeralizing tendencies and increase in Imperial authority being pushed via the organs of the Catholic Church. The first thing you'd need to do is create a more unified Protestant theology, where the various state churches were at least similar enough to be "In Communion" with one another in order to have a fully unified sense of religious identity. Throw in a stronger Hapsburg push to Catholize outside the Crown territories, overt favoratism towards Catholic states within the Empire, maybe have a Protestant uprising that they ask for Imperial contributions to put down...

Basically, triggering a broader and bloodier version of the 30 years war where the Protestant states feel like their continued authority/autonomy was at stake to the point the Evangelical Union gets its butt in gear, is willing to include Reformed thinking states, and puts together a united military front. Maybe as the result of Bohemia asking them to select its monarch following the previously listed series of events? Alternatively, have them offer it directly to, say, the Danish King (In his capacity as Duke of Holestein), and have him hold the title long enough for the current Emperor to die. In the following election, the secular/Protestant electors elect the Danish King as HRE, but as a Lutheran the Pope refuses to crown the "legitiment" claiment, resulting in a war of Succession that ends in the North seceding under Danish hegemony.
 
"Protestant" at the time was, perhaps even more than it is today, a very broad and vague label, with the Northern princes being concerned with their religious freedom in many cases more as part of political power (In terms of the confiscation of Church property/bishoprics, administrative positions within the Empire, inheritance, ect.) and their "German Liberties" vs. the centeralizing tendencies and increase in Imperial authority being pushed via the organs of the Catholic Church. The first thing you'd need to do is create a more unified Protestant theology, where the various state churches were at least similar enough to be "In Communion" with one another in order to have a fully unified sense of religious identity. Throw in a stronger Hapsburg push to Catholize outside the Crown territories, overt favoratism towards Catholic states within the Empire, maybe have a Protestant uprising that they ask for Imperial contributions to put down...

Basically, triggering a broader and bloodier version of the 30 years war where the Protestant states feel like their continued authority/autonomy was at stake to the point the Evangelical Union gets its butt in gear, is willing to include Reformed thinking states, and puts together a united military front. Maybe as the result of Bohemia asking them to select its monarch following the previously listed series of events? Alternatively, have them offer it directly to, say, the Danish King (In his capacity as Duke of Holestein), and have him hold the title long enough for the current Emperor to die. In the following election, the secular/Protestant electors elect the Danish King as HRE, but as a Lutheran the Pope refuses to crown the "legitiment" claiment, resulting in a war of Succession that ends in the North seceding under Danish hegemony.
Perhaps you can have more liberal ideas to come to the forefront of the movement to unify the protestants against a common foe (Catholic church and hapsburgs)
 
Perhaps you can have more liberal ideas to come to the forefront of the movement to unify the protestants against a common foe (Catholic church and hapsburgs)

A key part of Protestantism is Sola Scriptura, and with such a doctrine you basically make it impossible to have unity.
 
"Protestant" at the time was, perhaps even more than it is today, a very broad and vague label, with the Northern princes being concerned with their religious freedom in many cases more as part of political power (In terms of the confiscation of Church property/bishoprics, administrative positions within the Empire, inheritance, ect.) and their "German Liberties" vs. the centeralizing tendencies and increase in Imperial authority being pushed via the organs of the Catholic Church. The first thing you'd need to do is create a more unified Protestant theology, where the various state churches were at least similar enough to be "In Communion" with one another in order to have a fully unified sense of religious identity. Throw in a stronger Hapsburg push to Catholize outside the Crown territories, overt favoratism towards Catholic states within the Empire, maybe have a Protestant uprising that they ask for Imperial contributions to put down...

Basically, triggering a broader and bloodier version of the 30 years war where the Protestant states feel like their continued authority/autonomy was at stake to the point the Evangelical Union gets its butt in gear, is willing to include Reformed thinking states, and puts together a united military front. Maybe as the result of Bohemia asking them to select its monarch following the previously listed series of events? Alternatively, have them offer it directly to, say, the Danish King (In his capacity as Duke of Holestein), and have him hold the title long enough for the current Emperor to die. In the following election, the secular/Protestant electors elect the Danish King as HRE, but as a Lutheran the Pope refuses to crown the "legitiment" claiment, resulting in a war of Succession that ends in the North seceding under Danish hegemony.

I agree with you although I can hardly imagine a bloodier version of the 30 years war, which OTL already caused the death of one third of the population of the HRE.
 
I agree with you although I can hardly imagine a bloodier version of the 30 years war, which OTL already caused the death of one third of the population of the HRE.

That would be...horrendous :eek::(.

Bloodier might not be the best word... more intense/dramatic/decisive rather than the slow burn it was IRL? Instead of having armies/mercenaries wandering across the Germans in starts and stops, with cycles of violence picking the land clean of anything of economic value, more or less permenantly displacing the population, feeding entire generations of men into the grinder of war, muddling up records/property rights you end up with more organized armies and more or less continuous set of protagonists. While any one year might be bloodier and contain more states in the conflict, it would also end earlier and more decisively.
 
A key part of Protestantism is Sola Scriptura, and with such a doctrine you basically make it impossible to have unity.
It doesn't have to be the whole of Germany just the northern part, it seems to me that by the 1600s germany is mostly calvinist and lutheran which could bind together fairly well if Luther hadn't denounced them. If Frankfurt becomes a center of reformation it could be plausible.
 
It doesn't have to be the whole of Germany just the northern part, it seems to me that by the 1600s germany is mostly calvinist and lutheran which could bind together fairly well if Luther hadn't denounced them. If Frankfurt becomes a center of reformation it could be plausible.

I think what he means is the entire idea of a uniform canon, or at least an enforced one, on all churches is in principal not compatible with Sola Scriptura, because people have to be allowed to interpret the Bible themselves and thus naturally reach differing conclusions.
 
I think what he means is the entire idea of a uniform canon, or at least an enforced one, on all churches is in principal not compatible with Sola Scriptura, because people have to be allowed to interpret the Bible themselves and thus naturally reach differing conclusions.
I was talking about the relationship between Calvinists and Lutherans, Luther alienated the calvinists and advocated against them. I meant that the calvinist and lutheran parts of Germany could cooperate more effectively against the Hapsburgs as a United front
 
A key part of Protestantism is Sola Scriptura, and with such a doctrine you basically make it impossible to have unity.
By liberal ideas I meant freedom of religion kinda like what was going on in the Netherlands.
Not every country has to be religiously homogeneous
 
By liberal ideas I meant freedom of religion kinda like what was going on in the Netherlands.
Not every country has to be religiously homogeneous

One thing you must remember is that most North German states were essentially divine right monarchies. Thus the type of Liberalism you espouse is quite alien. I mean the only reason the groups later united in Prussia, was so that Queen Louise wouldn't feel bad about having lots of sex with someone outside her church.
 
One thing you must remember is that most North German states were essentially divine right monarchies. Thus the type of Liberalism you espouse is quite alien. I mean the only reason the groups later united in Prussia, was so that Queen Louise wouldn't feel bad about having lots of sex with someone outside her church.
OK but with a POD in the Schmalkaldic war we could have Saxony convince the other rulers to give up some of their powers to make sure when the Hapsburgs come knocking again, they could be more prepared
I don't mean a union but more of like an EU analogue and move on and unify over time from that point.
 
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