WI Pro-Slavery candidate won 1860 election?

mowque

Banned
Time was on the side of the North so the idea of the North seceding is a non-starter. They will simply wait until the GOP wins in 1864, having added another state or three, plus further industrial development favoring the North, especially the railroads annd another million or so immigrants.

Exactly. Curious what might have happened if you waited 5-10 years. Would all the same states have 'went' the same way?
 

The Sandman

Banned
Well, here's a wrinkle nobody seems to have considered yet: what happens if somebody brings a case to the Supreme Court that results in Taney and Friends declaring any state law infringing upon slavery, up to and including general emancipation, unconstitutional?
 
mowque, another ten years would have been a disaster for any secession movement. By then there will be no new slave states added but Kansas, Nebraska, Nevada and Colorado will have joined while several slave states such as Missouri, Maryland and Delaware may have 'flipped'.

Certainly Maryland's decision in 1864 was a shock to many and slavery was less secure in the other two.

Now add the flow of immigrants, overwhelmingly favoring the north, industrial developments(likewise) and possible advances/expansions of the US army and navy, such as an ironclad or two in service or a few thousand more regulars who, unlike the officers, were overwhelmingly loyal to the Union.
 
Well, here's a wrinkle nobody seems to have considered yet: what happens if somebody brings a case to the Supreme Court that results in Taney and Friends declaring any state law infringing upon slavery, up to and including general emancipation, unconstitutional?

General emancipation can only be achieved thru constitutional amendment, which it was historically, which even Taney would have to recognize as the law of the land if ratified by the states.
 

The Sandman

Banned
Roger Taney is dead by 1860 IIRC
Nope. He died in 1864. There's still enough time for him to throw more kerosene onto the fire.

General emancipation can only be achieved thru constitutional amendment, which it was historically, which even Taney would have to recognize as the law of the land if ratified by the states.

By "general emancipation" I mean "a state outlawing slavery within its boundaries".
 
Roger Taney is dead by 1860 IIRC
You don't. Taney tried to revoke Lincoln's suspension of the Writ of Habeus Corpus. Lincoln simply ignored him. One of the few times history has come down on the side of the POTUS in doing that. In fact, Taney did not finally die until shortly before Lincoln's re-election/inaugural. He was replaced by Salmon P. Chase, Lincoln's Secretary of the Treasury. Most of Taney's gang had the good decency to resign and head South. Taney stayed, and became a useless minority with no one listening to him except the copperheads.
 
Lol. "The Blimps of the South" ?
Blimps? ASB. Gatling Guns? They were available IOTL, but the Union general responsible for the procurement of new weapons types was almost as incompetent as the Confederate Army's Commissary General!

His view of the Gatling Gun? "Wastes ammunition!":eek:
 
You don't. Taney tried to revoke Lincoln's suspension of the Writ of Habeus Corpus. Lincoln simply ignored him. One of the few times history has come down on the side of the POTUS in doing that. In fact, Taney did not finally die until shortly before Lincoln's re-election/inaugural. He was replaced by Salmon P. Chase, Lincoln's Secretary of the Treasury. Most of Taney's gang had the good decency to resign and head South. Taney stayed, and became a useless minority with no one listening to him except the copperheads.

Has history really come down on the side of Lincoln for usurping the power and authority of Congress?
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
And it's not like Lincoln did anything unconstitutional by revoking habeas corpus; it's completely legal to do that in times of insurrection and/or invasion. I mostly found people who criticize Lincoln for that tiresome and blinkered.
 
Most of Taney's gang had the good decency to resign and head South. Taney stayed, and became a useless minority with no one listening to him except the copperheads.


No. Only one, Justice Campbell of Alabama, resigned and went south. He made a brief reappearence in history as one of the Confederate Commissioners who parleyed with Lincoln at Hampton Roads in January 1865.

Another member of the Dred Scott Majority, Peter Daniel of Virginia, died in 1860. So, in 1857, had one of the two dissenters, Curtis of Massachusetts, while the other, MacLean of Ohio, would die in 1861.

The other four stayed on. One, Samuel Nelson of New York, sided with Taney over habeas corpus and related matters, along with Nathan Clifford of Maine, whom Buchanan had appointed to replace Curtis. The others, Catron of Tennessee, Grier of Pennsylvania and Wayne of Georgia, all took a firmly Unionist line and mostly supported the Administration. They were Andrew Jackson appointees and evidently shared his attitude toward treason.
 
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I mostly found people who criticize Lincoln for that tiresome and blinkered.

Which is the same I have found of people who laude Lincoln for that.

That authority rests with the Congress as the Constitution clearly shows.
 
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Surely, everyone, nothing would change in the short run. The US had been getting one Pro-Southern President after another. What would be different? The South wanted the Fugitive Slave laws enforced, but not to the point of Civil War. One thing to note: The West and Northwest will be 4 years more settled, 4 years more developed. A Civil War starting with a (Say for the sake of arguement) Lincoln Administration in 1865? This will mean the South is going to have a slightly heavier burden to face.

I know you mention him for the sake of arguement, yet I wonder if it would be more likely that there would be a William Seward Administration.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Which is the same I have found of people who laude Lincoln for that.
Eh, agree to disagree.
I know you mention him for the sake of arguement, yet I wonder if it would be more likely that there would be a William Seward Administration.
I definitely think that if Lincoln loses in '60, he's done unless he (somehow) pulls a Nixon in the 1800s. I suppose we'd call it a "Cleveland"?

Anyways, yes, I believe that Seward would surely get the Republican nomination in '64 if the Republicans lost in 1860.
 
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